Big Brother would be proud

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Madison, Nov 14, 2002.

  1. dotslash - I really don't understand your point. The bush administration and the GOP win seem to have only accelerated and expanded government and loss of liberty and privacy of US citizens, as described in the articles above.

    Your point on intrusion is valid, but it seems irrelevant which party is in power.
    #21     Nov 21, 2002
  2. Yeah Madison, I really don't understand it either. Apparently most Americans can't read the writing on the wall.

    Ashcroft, Bush, and the rest of the GOP are doing nearly everything they can to quash personal civil liberties, and these clowns claim that we're the hypocrites.

    The other night I hear on NPR that the GOP is pushing hard a new branch of government, specifically to handle terrorism, because the FBI and CIA can't handle the job.

    ...and now we've got the dept of homeland security...

    ...and you anti-liberals claim that we're pro-spending...

    Which part of my argument don't you understand???

    During Clinton, there were no civil liberties issues, and things were fine.

    As a matter of fact, right before 9/11 Ashcroft was gearing up to prosecute the porn industry using old decency laws...what a friggin' waste of time and MY TAX DOLLARS...

    aside from the whole gun thing - which is apparently everything to the conservatives, we now have fewer freedoms and more government, and of course, MORE DEFICIT security will go bankrupt and we'll have a huge deficit...

    #22     Nov 21, 2002
  3. [excerpt]


    February 27, 1933
    The Reichstag Fire

    On the night the German Parliament Building--the Reichstag-- burned down, Hitler was at Goebbels's apartment having dinner. They rushed to the scene where they met Göring who was already screaming false charges and making threats against the Communists. At first glance, Hitler described the fire as a beacon from heaven. "You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in German history. . . This fire is the beginning," Hitler told a news reporter at the scene.

    While not all historians agree on who actually perpetrated the Reichstag Fire, writers such as Klaus P. Fischer feel that most likely the Nazis were responsible.

    A dazed Dutch Communist named Marinus van der Lubbe was found at the scene and charged with arson. He was later found guilty and executed.

    On February 28, 1933--the day after the Reichstag fire--President Hindenburg and Chancellor Hitler invoked Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution, which permitted the suspension of civil liberties in a time of national emergency.

    A Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of the People and State abrogated the following German constitutional protections:

    Free expression of opinion
    Freedom of the press
    Right of assembly and association
    Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
    Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
    Individual property rights
    States' right of self-government

    A supplemental decree created the SA (Storm Troops) and SS (Special Security) Federal police agencies.


    September 11, 2001
    The Terrorist Attacks

    When the Word Trade Center and the Pentagon were attacked, Bush was reading to grade school children in Florida. When informed of the attack by his associates, he continued reading. He then flew to a security bunker in Nebraska before finally returning to the White House.

    No military aircraft had been scrambled to intercept the four hijacked planes, though there was plenty of time to do so.

    The fact that there has been no genuine investigation into the 9/11 terrorist attack on American citizens creates the odor of a cover-up of gigantic proportions. Some news analysts point to the possibility that the Bush administration could have been complicit.

    Hundreds of suspects were immediately jailed, without benefit of habeas corpus or other rights. Some of these suspects have already been found guilty of the crime.

    The Bush junta forced the Patriot Act bill through Congress, suspending essential civil liberties, excusing oppression as essential to the "war on terrorism," and maintaining that dissent was treason.

    The Patriot Act abrogated the following American constitutional protections:

    Free expression of opinion
    Freedom of the press
    Right of assembly and association
    Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
    Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
    Individual property rights
    States' right of self-government

    Presidential decrees make it possible for military forces to be used to monitor and control the civilian population, in abrogation of the posse comitatus act.
    #23     Nov 21, 2002
  4. Denial ain't just a river in egypt, but it is a way of life for hard core liberals.

    #24     Nov 21, 2002
  5. The Dems have controlled the federal government for the majority of the time since WWII. The Dems have been, and still are, the driving force behind big government. Lyndon "war on poverty, escalate the vietnam war" Johnson accelerated it and it never stopped. There would be no big brother without democrats supporting it. The truth is that no major piece of legislation has made its way through the congress in the past 50 years without significant democratic support.

    The idea that they can blame the current administration for big brother is absolutely disgusting, and a sign of blatant dishonesty and/or denial. The difference between the homeland security bill and the thousands of democratically sponsored efforts over the years, is that the homeland security bill actually has a logical justification. The threat is real, there WILL be another terrorist trying to hit us again and we have to do something about it. THIS TIME WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
    #25     Nov 21, 2002
  6. By the way, the congress is still close to 50% democrat, and the Homeland security bill got NEARLY A 90% YES VOTE. Do you get it now ?
    #26     Nov 21, 2002

    "Take the guns away from the people, they can't be trusted. Ban smoking, the people aren't fit to decide for themselves whether to smoke. Ban SUV's, the elite thinks they are ugly gas hogs, besides they compete for road space and gas with our armored limosines. Force employers to hire people they don't want because the elites have decided that there aren't enough of XYZ victim group in the company. Violate private property rights, the people aren't fit to decide how to use their own land. Fix prices and give away subsidies because the judgement of the elite is better than the free market. Ridicule and demonize anybody who would say the new world order is real or that the U.N. is leading to a world government, because we need the elites to rule without question. The masses are dumb, democracy is a joke, isn't it funny we call ourselves democrats? Ha ha. "
    #27     Nov 21, 2002
  8. I don't know to whom you are referring, but it is unnecessary in any case. It seems as though you have been duped by the limbaugh/daschle/carville/bush/right/left sit-com played out in the popular media for the distraction of the simple.

    If you are so dense as to really believe that these trends have been initiated or sustained by one political party, over the sincere opposition of another party, or that they have anything to do with political platforms or childish campaign rhetoric, then there is little value in reading your views on the topic.
    #28     Nov 21, 2002
  9. i wasn't referring to you madison, and actually you have stated my point. Blaming the republicans for our current mess is totally insane.
    #29     Nov 21, 2002
  10. Josh_B


    wild vvv madison, thanks for the links, good info! it helps increase awareness of what is going on.

    The following come to mind:

    "Freedom is strangely ephemeral. It is something like breathing; one only becomes acutely aware of its importance when one is choking."

    William E. Simon
    Secretary of the Treasury (Nixon & Ford)
    A Time for Truth, 1978

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

    - Johann W. Von Goethe

    "Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day. But a series of oppressions, pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly proves a deliberate systematic plan of reducing us to slavery".

    -Thomas Jefferson

    but this last one is probably the simplest and the best:

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    -Benjamin Franklin

    Does it look pretty close to our current state of affairs?

    I just hope cool heads prevail.

    #30     Nov 21, 2002