why was Jorge vs post removed, the one where hes said this is impossible? If 1 person in 1000 can do this, after burning through 250k, does that mean it is possible. Obsessive compulsives see 1 and ignore the 999. Since Michael Jordan can average 36 a game, should everyone quit their job?
Depth Of Market comes into view for traders when they wish to trade turns skillfully. It also turns out that other kinds of traders are around and about. The particular group that uses the DOM besides those that are trading turns skillfully, are traders who try to fool people and traders who do not trade with confidence. Those doing the fooling are generally well financed and have large accounts. The unconfident traders trade "chicken feed" accounts. I ALWAYS have the key values from the DOM adjacent to my forming bar (price). I focus on volume since it leads price, but I do want to have the situation on price in hand when I look at price. DOM has been spoken of by several people and the mod is editing this thread on some basis. The use DOM well sometimes a lot of tuition is paid by those with large accounts; they can afford it. Raskolnikov points out a truism about any sophisitcated trading tool. He amplifies on Russo and Schoemaker (Wharton) whose four cell matrix compares process and outcomes. Good process and good outcomes are deserved success. Bolter explains the counterintuitive nature of trader tools, and especially the DOM. Dum mother gave to you gift that describes the "wall" ever present on the DOM. Other comments take as humor or impractical and vendor sales oriented. By examining DOM in a context you learn about orders that show in markets. Read Larry Harris to get the official names and purposes. By comparing the T&S you learn that most orders on the DOM serve other purposes than being executed. Most are added and pulled; the remaining part of the population are executed by market orders facing them and are all seen on the T&S. A 50 contract example was mentioned but not purposefully. If to have all T&S streaming and 49 or greater T&S streaming you can separate the players from the chicken feed. The minority controls the market except for the games played by well financed players on the DOM. We are now down to two aspects: the minority controlling the market and game players. Turns come into view on volume. At that time it is good to consider smart money and two other things: What Must Come Next (WMCN) and What Wasn't That (WWT). Turns do not occur on ends of bars. They occur intrabar on a volume shift. To see this you can use DOM or Put the DOM walls adjacent to the forming bar using a script asddition to your panes that need precision. For me it is the OTR pane and the Price pane of the instrument I trade (ES). Walls more than 10 units apart (a unit is the finest granularity called a tick spread) simply tell you that a turn is not in the offing with one exception. That is where the Holy Grail level trading takes place. By coding up the "largest resting level on Bid and Offer", you have two walls and they are always at extremes of 10 units OR within the 10 values. Your example contained a very deep DOM that most do not use. I also color the walls for instant recognition. Rule 1: There is no trade if the walls are remote from BBid BAsk (or on a bar chart the present close on the forming bar). This means sit and hold. Rule 2: For your hold, look at the side of the market you will be trading on to collect the profits for that segment. If I am long, I am interested in the value of the sell-exit/entry on the opposite side-buy trade (reversal) that I will do. Rule 3: Observe the games of forming walls by -adding- resting orders and then collapsing them by -pulling- resting orders. Look at the 100's place holder and repeated odd units digits in two digit (tens place holder) blocks. The odd digits will be more than one specific digit because two or more "pullers" are playing together to move BBid or BAsk; they are communicating with each other. Rule 4: Watch the wall of interest to you come into the forming bars vertical region. Learn to watch it come from above or below the formed protion to just the end of the bar. Rule 5: Notice if the rule 4 territory was part of the prior bar vertical section. If so this is a trade just after the best exit (or entry) on the prior bar. Now, you are ready to begin to read DOM to get the trade on the prior bar. Doing the "second chance" trading is what is showing in steps 1 through 5. Mr. Black a great trader, often does the second chance trade as a "confirmation" trade which is a terrific strategy. the market really gives a lot of capital to the trader daily so carving turns is not a requirement but more just a thing of prowess that is habitual. If you know how sunrise and sunset works, you know that there are relative minumums and relative maximums which are not concurrent. Most kids figure this out and now is the time of years the relative minimums are being followed. the Yukon and arctic circle regions are more fun however. The walls do the same. Both move in parallel during trends and are widely separated. These are hold periods and they prevent early exits and being whipsawed ever. The extreme wall of the range stops moving in the trend first. The interior wall of the range keeps on chugging after the lack of "pulls' on the extreme "stop" allowing the wall to migrate. This is the timing of the trun carving because, this is where the extreme of the range wall "sits" and is not eaten through. Soon the interior wall reverses direction and heads to neutral and this is where a lot of mean reversion algos pop into the picture as market trades. The extreme wall of the range "follows" the interior wall and that is seen in step 5 above. Most traders are "frozen" during turns of the market and this is seen as holding through the "wash" last chance and later being whipsawed and still later having stops hit or enduring drawdon to wait as long as the next cycle of price movement. All of the DOM "action" takes place inside of the more coarse measures of trending movements. As Nodoji pointed out each trend has three movements. If a person uses the DOM to just trae the full three part movement at it's extremes, then other signals flow from WMCN. If a person is copping all the market's offer, then the segments come more quickly and WWT comes into play. you are not seeing the expected as so you accelerate you inspection of the other leading indicators of price besides volume. The smart money signals on S/S and the pattern on the OTR chart comes into play. for this reason I keep the walls showing on the OTR chart which behaves as a market profile chart by its nature. OTR bars and the wall symbol I use approximate the same visual size so I get to see the above in fine detail as what I call a "steer and focus" kind of routine as part of MADA. OODA of CW trading is always a lap behind it turns out the Action of D and the "reading the test" in A are always lagging the PA (See the focus of Steenbarger to remediate "anxiety" continually in his CW client population. To understand what I posted you have to read it several times during RTH's so you can see it in real time. Most people have never seen the markets simply because they do not have appropriate displays on their screens and are operating "blind" for the most part.
do you have proof that anyone has done it...if so, name that person please. OP this advice you are getting is not good, run from ET....as fast as possible.
Oh I see, you make up some BS stat, get called out on it and now demand names of private traders. What a f-ing joke you are. Your time is better spent learning what works best for you, rather than stamping your feet and whining that something is impossible just because YOU can't do it.
It's the same old debate as usual...someone saids they use something and then someone shows up and saids it doesn't work. You guys and gals need to relax and understand that when someone saids they use something that most likely it's "not the only thing their using". Yeah, futurestrader71 uses it and it's not the only thing he uses and if it's the same former ET member that's the same person on twitter...it's definetly not the most important thing he uses. Thus, if bid size/ask size is tradable it's because it's being used with other stuff and it may not even be the most important thing in someone's trading plan. I've never met a profitable trader that exclusively uses only one thing with no other inputs. Simply, most traders don't discuss everything in their trading plan all at once in a single message post...they may discuss one piece of the trading plan one day and another piece of the trading plan days, weeks or months later whenever they see someone else discussing it. It does not imply it's the only thing in their trading plan nor does it imply it's the most important thing in their trading plan. Mark
I used to pay attention to the ACV ratio a lot as the ES would trade into zones of resting inventory (tight areas of price where many LONG or SHORT positions had previously been accumulated). After the increase in volatility these past few years I found I did not really pay any attention to it anymore.....I just did not need to look at the ACV ratio for what I do. Also, the ACV ratio was more beneficial imo for hyperscalping or microscalping which is a style of intraday trading that I am not into (but others may be). Here was the good thread previously started by ViperSpeedTrader back in the day........ http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68098&highlight=acv "Red Duke" and "dcraig" are also very knowledgable about ACV ratio applications.
At long last you are starting to make some progress with your understanding of price at congestion levels. Keep up this progress and you will be trading a real account later in 2010. But try to keep your emotions in check as you are clearly "needy" and sadly there are noobies here who cannot distinguish between your journey and your posturing.