The point here is not the experience of the originator of this post, myself or you. I stand for my point that the trivial extra cost involved to improve on ones trading should not be the point. These are tools we are discussing. THE VERY BEST IS KEY. Now, what is the very best have to do with cost? Value would be the discussion for that. Again when measuring value...DB....your methodology might be matched with a product that serves you, like you point out. But Swipe merely asked a blanket question, which alerted me to his/her focus. This was just a response to a concern I had for the continued success and attitude of a Futures trader or trader to be. Michael B.
I agree with your first point. However, the "very best" will depend on what you plan to do with it. You said that every futures trader had to track every tick. That's not true. Therefore, why spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on stuff you don't need? For me, IB and Sierra are not only inexpensive but provide excellent value, and if he is interested in doing what I'm doing, he may need nothing else. If he decides to do what you're doing, then what I use may not be enough. But to say that every futures trader ought to buy this and subscribe to that assumes that all futures traders trade futures in the same way. --Db
In this discussion the very best would be : reliability processor use speed accuracy value discussions would be: application cost ease of use (questionable as to catagory) DB...essentially you and I are agreeing. My earlier remark was just to illustrate the "value of a tick" and the "fixed cost of tools" ratio. Michael B.
We can also think about it in these terms: You have got 15k You suscribe to cheap data/software (100/mth) and decide not to trade but develop strategies and paper trade the first year. You still have around 13.8k after 1 year. You subscribe to top of the range software/data (400/mth) and feel you need to win immediately because you have top of the range software which you think needs to pay for itself. Chances are great that you will have nothing left after (or before) 1 year.
I resemble(d) this remark!! See Alexander Elder's book "Welcome to my Trading Room" for a more complete discussion of this topic. Learn from others, don't be like me. . . .
I am not speaking from a novice position. I feel qualified to make a statement now. First here is your quote: We can also think about it in these terms: You have got 15k You suscribe to cheap data/software (100/mth) and decide not to trade but develop strategies and paper trade the first year. You still have around 13.8k after 1 year. You subscribe to top of the range software/data (400/mth) and feel you need to win immediately because you have top of the range software which you think needs to pay for itself. Chances are great that you will have nothing left after (or before) 1 year 1) THE FEEL YOU NEED TO WIN IMMEDIATLY....IS A LOSING APPROACH. 2) 15K IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO TRADE WITH IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. IF ONE WERE TO SPEND 1 YEAR OF THEIR TIME TO TEST WITH.....AND THEN START WITH 15K.....WELL THEIR TIME MUST NOT BE WORTH MUCH. IT WOULD BE FAR BETTER TO GET A REAL JOB AND BUILD UP TRADING CAPITAL FIRST. 3) CHANCES ARE ALREADY GREAT THAT OVER 95% OF THE TRADERS THAT TRADE FUTURES WILL LOSE MONEY IN THEIR FIRST YEAR...REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING. NOW, IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPETE WITH A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF WINNERS AND YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PULL IN CONSISTANT PROFITS AND PROVE TO BE BETTER THAN THE LOSERS...THEN YOU MUST REALLY SHIFT ATTITUDES. Now I will quit yelling, sorry...but please listen to me. Never Never risk more than 1% of your bankroll on a futures trade. After year 1...... perhaps you can get aggressive...and go as high as 3% (5% max) but I would never praise that decision. Many remarks on this thread are proving to be novice remarks and I really disagree. Surely anybody with experience here must see my point...which in fact is not mine...but the attitude of many pro's that I know. Michael B.
I am not novice at all but I understand the nocice's position. I have traded for 5years in various dealing rooms in Europe, trading mainly fixed income derivatives. I quit 5yers ago to trade my own money and started with 10k to trade and 15k to pay the bills the first year. And 5 years later, I am still there. Moreover, using cheap (but quality) data/software could allow you not to quit your job, develop strategies and build capital while keeping your job.
I respect your experience and I apologize. This is a public forum....and I do not want to be ir-responsible for posting false expectations. Sure...the gambling mentality is alive and growing. I do not like to admit this....it seems so bold and braggardly....but we need the losers and the gamblers to profit from. Trading for me...is a mechanical boring job. These forums provide entertainment and do not take this personally. Trading is just data entry.......price action and probabilities is the only consideration...ok some lagging indicators can give you confidence and help you to see what you are actually seeing. But this is a whole entire conversation. Have we heard from Swipe? (originator of this thread?) Michael B. Michael B.
You can use Medved QuoteTracker the main program is free (you can pay to register to get rid of the ads and to get more days of intraday charts) You can use IB as the datafeed. If you need more advanced datafeed that allows more symbols to be tracked and backfill, you can then subscribe to IQFeed for QT which supports all that, including backfill for IQFeed symbols as well as IB GLOBEX symbols. This way, you can select to pay for a datafeed if/when you need it. You can also trade through QT/IB.
Indeed nothing personal, just opinions. For me also, trading is a purely mechanical job. It's because of my experience that I have this point of view. I have had the opportunity to develop my strategies on the bank's software (cqg and bloomberg). But there was so little software/data choice 5years ago (and they were expensive) that, had I not worked as a professional trader, I would not have been able to make it. So I just see the cheap but quality data/software available nowadays as a formidable opportunity for aspiring traders to enter the trading field and eventually succeed.