the burden on you is to put a good study up. Not me, as you made the claim. it will also be a test of how well your reason.
I have to agree with the point stu is making. Lets say your study shows that lots of dumb people believe in god so that skews the stats. That does nothing to support your argument. The real question is what... that 65% of the people with IQs over 150 do not believe in God - is that really telling you much. I already granted you that radical democratic leaders and academics as a group do seem to deny the existence of God. but to me that is a meaningless because I find many academics to have the pre- disposition to have an inflated self worth. So going back to what stu said - does it really matter - if we agree that smart people can do stupid stuff. I know that smart english people seem to take delight in the absurd - especially when making arguments. hence the existence of Benny Hill.
how was that remnant save -what is the timing - what is the mechanism. By the way I was not making the point that many were saved. Although i can see that is a fair interpretation of what i wrote. I try and type fast.. either between trades other work. And it frequently comes out poorly constructed.
I agree that no one is good compared to perfection. But that is not the point. the point is mercy and salvation. did jews have a way to be saved prior to the resurrection? I agree that my studies lead me to conclude that acting in accord with faith in God's promises is the revealed plan. but, interestingly one of the ways to fulfill the promises jesus made seems to be living in accord with the sermon on the mount. A very difficult thing to do - but it does seem to leave the door open for good behavior. In christian apologetic you see the split on justification. Protestants emphasize faith - catholics - faith and prior to this pope making a declartion in the 80s on justification - I think it is fair to say Catholics point out faith and works. They cite the book of james and jesus' ministry. In the end this new pope in the 80s agreed with the lutherans it is about faith. But - faith is an action not just a belief. You act in accordance with your belief that God fulfills his promises. So if you read what Jesus said about everlasting life on the sermon on the mount - what will you conclude?
regarding judgments you should read the bible again. I just googled this. I have no idea what background this site has, but you will see why I have wondered if there was more than one judgment when you scroll down the page. It cites Paul. http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=174 the dies once then the judgment - adds no value to this discussion. you could die once, play a round of golf in purgatory and then have six judgments and that would not make your quote false. I am not sure of the reason of pointing out man must be called. but if you are a calvinist - you have to wonder how that logic holds up - if God and Jesus exist outside of time.
Believers get emotional and self-rightous because they need confirmation, measured by number of converts, of thier fantasies. Non-believers get emotional because they are sick of fantasies influencing the social, political and economical decision making process in our lives. In short, the point that we atheists are trying to make is this: There are no gods, devils, angels, ghosts, elves, fairies, or spirits. There is no supreme being who cares about sparrows or you. Jesus did not rise from death and is not going to come rescue us. Muhammad did not fly up to heaven on a winged horse and visit with god, and the angel Moroni did not translate golden tablets for Joseph Smith. No bush has ever burned without being consumed, the earth is 4+ billion years and man did not live with dinosaurs. You are not reincarnated from a previous life, nobody can talk to the dead, prayer changes nothing, and you will not live eternally. Rabbits foot, four-leak clovers, and St. Christophers will not affect your âluckâ. The Cubs cannot win the World Series. Although possible in the future, we have not been visited by beings from other planets and nobody has been abducted by them. Nobody has the ability to affect others by casting spells, crystals do not have healing powers, people cannot levitate, remote-viewing is not possible, people cannot see into the future by reading palms, tea leaves or astrology charts. Nobody can set things on fire or bend spoons with their minds, we cannot communicate telepathically. All we have is universal physical laws. We do not understand all of them at this time and probably never will. The best course for humans is to abandon the silly beliefs listed above, face the truth and get to work on making the lives of everybody (and other species) as comfortable, fair, and just as we can. After that we can proceed with understanding the universe. Be & do good, not for the allure of riches in heaven or to avoid the pains of hell, but simply because it is the right thing to do.
You kinda missed the point I was making jem but then, you always have. Clue.... SWhiting (either intentionally or coincidentally) didn't.
I did not miss it all- I just disagree with your conclusion - and the odd thing is - I clearly stated it. Why can't you read? do you have some bias? I find it ironic that you just cited a post in which the person claims that there is no god - as if that is a fact. he acts like he is rational. Even funnier is that you are so biased you will lose this argument again. Don't you atheists get it - science has no stake in your argument. They simply can not prove there is no creator. Therefore your side is not rational by your own standards. Current science can not tell you what existed prior to the big bang. At best science has no say. (for your side) And at worst many scientists now say there is evidence of design.
Salvation is for bringing the compromised back to perfection. The world symbolizes the compromised mind of the Self, and each self-concept within it mentally compromised [think: insane, sin] If you are not perfect yet, you must be in a process of healing, a gradual awakening over time. In this sense you are simultaneously crucified and also awakening. But if you are not awake [think: resurrected], then you are still clearing your mind [think: baptism] of compromised beliefs in what is Truth, the Truth. Belief in the world is something you want to clear from your mind before you can resurrect. The world is an idol in the temple of your mind, and it is a "place" of idols [there are no "places" in heaven]. The way for a Jew to be saved prior to his resurrection, then, is to "sell" the very first sentence in his Torah [think: idol] at top dollar, or else give it to the Salvation Army. The first sentence is considered to be "holy", "sacred", firmly established, immovable, truth. As such, it desecrates your mind. You cannot "follow me" and desecrate [think: compromise, judge, underestimate, confuse, split] your mind at the same time. The historical bodily ressurrection was a miracle. It could not have been accomplished had I not already been awakened/resurrected. It is the resurrected who do miracles. And resurrection is a kind of miracle. It is the awakening to Life from death [think: plato's cave = tomb]. The physical ressurection was a symbol of the resurrection of a sleeping - compromised - mind. It was the sure sign that I had rebuilt [think: healed] my mind [think: temple] prior to the miracle demonstration of the invulnerability of a resurrected [think: awakened] life. Since my mission was to emparody the genesis and exodus of all self-concepts from sleep [think: ignorance], my resurrection is the promise of yours. Yours will follow because it is one mind that is in the process of fully awakening over time. When it is time for you to awaken you will, and you will work miracles as a result. If you are not working miracles, you are in the clearing-the-temple phase of preparation for the reception of grace, which is Christ-time [think: Christmas], from which vantage point you may begin to distribute the gift of miracles to the world like Santa passing out toys to kids. You do not understand yet that the body is an effect of mind/belief. It is the "stuff of dreams". It is an unnatural use of mind power. Its existence, and health is of the mind. It's ressurection from the dead is the sign that the mind has risen from a "dead" state of "sleeping" to an alive state of waking. Bodily resurrection is a teaching aid to help you understand the underlying reality. It is that reality that is being saved...not the body. The desire to save the body is a desire to maintain an idol within the temple of your mind. This will prevent resurrection, but not reincarnation. The mind has no use for the body because the unlimited has no use for the limited. The ascension miracle was not about taking a body to heaven with you. You can't do that any more than you can take your shekels. The body betrays you for little shining pieces of silver. Magnitude and littleness cannot coexist. They are incompatible. The unlimited is heaven. The limited is hell. The ascension miracle teaches that those whose minds are resurrected defy all the laws of this world through miracles. Miracles purposely defy the laws of this world to show that it is not real. The ascension demonstration also says that only those who are resurrected will join in the ascension of the Son back to his home where he came from. The Great Ascension will take place after the Great Awakening, after all have been individually resurrected by identifying with the whole. It is only a lust for the flesh which looks up and says, "He will come back the way he left". Jesus