Talk to the god-of-this-world and its voice will support its existence, in the name of "God", in the name of "Holy Spirit", in the name of "Jesus". It usurps every teaching aid given for your salvation, translating it for its own purposes. Beware. Talk to *Our Father*, and the Holy Spirit will translate. You must go through the Holy Spirit if you want to reach our Father. *The Way* back requires you lay down your so-called "life" that your Life as the Holy Spirit may proceed. "You" cannot go to the Father. There is no "you" as far as the Father is concerned. He created One Son, his only Son. Who are "you"? He created the Holy Spirit, that his wayward Son may go "through" him to the Father. The *Way* to go "through" him is to *be* the same as him. He is the same as the Son. As he goes to the Father, so "you" go with him, as brother, as equal, as the same as he. It is he who teaches you who you are, that the real You may go to the Father. It is the Holy Spirit who transforms your perceptions, as you give your dark thoughts over to his light. Seeing with him, you see in light. In the light, you see where there is a miracle for whatever problem you thought was there. You have yet to understand that this is *the Way* I followed, and if you would follow me, you would follow the *same Way*. Jesus
Since you said: There can be no claims before the Big Bang because all evidence prior to it would have been destroyed. It seems then, science SHOULD be saying: "WE CAN'T KNOW." Science can't know why the universe came into being. But how many scientists will say maybe, just maybe, a being of some sort created the universe. They won't say that. They can't ("because all evidence prior to it would have been destroyed") say anything else either. They have nothing. It's quite empty really. You therefore can't believe your life has value. A human life or the life of a dust mite are equal. There is no such thing as good or evil. They can't exist. Someone may say that what the Khmer Rouge did was evil. Someone could say it was good. Estimates vary as to how many people were killed by the Khmer Rouge regime, ranging from approximately one to three million.[15][16] This era has given rise to the term Killing Fields, and the prison Tuol Sleng became as notorious as Auschwitz in the history of mass killing. Hundreds of thousands more fled across the border into neighbouring Thailand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodia#History
I've been going back over a number of posts that I didn't respond to over the previous week. There were a number of topics. You wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As an aside, but much more importantly, is there "existence after this life". (I assume that all of us agree that, when a person fails to respond to stimuli, that he/she is dead). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The body is dead. The person's spirit, whatever they believe or disbelieve, never dies. You wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For the most part, we are discussing the validity of believing in 'God": Jesus hasn't even come into the equation yet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Father, the Son (ie. Jesus) the Holy Spirit are divine. No angel, or any other being mentioned in scripture or any other belief system is divine. There is no way to the Father except by Jesus. Some think that Jesus was just a man and not divine. Just so we're clear on the Christian view here.
stephenszpak wrote: The cutoff point is after you sin your first time. See comments below about the *original* and *only* "sin". The Father sent His only Son (ie. Jesus) to be the perfect man to die in place of you and me. The Father didn't have to send Him, yet He did. The Father sent the Holy Spirit to be Life to a Son who slept, and dreamed of death. The Holy Spirit was created for this purpose, equal to the Father and the Son, bridging a communication gap. No one can die for anyone, because no one can really die. Death is not the Truth. It is a lie. What appears to be death is a self-concept changing form...a thought-stream that learns. That is what self-concepts do...they are always changing. They are born to die, only to find they are still "alive". So they are the "living dead", not quite alive, not quite dead. Death is mind asleep. To live is to wake up. I woke up. Now it is your turn to wake up. Wake up! The cross was about getting your attention...an extreme teaching device, which, if understood, can "save" your mind which has been driven mad with the concept of guilt. 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. The Father gave the Holy Spirit to the wayward Son. And while the Son made his own world, the Holy Spirit made a "real", lovable world back to back, in his name. The Holy Spirit's world is "at hand", seen only with the "eyes" of the Holy Spirit, which are the "eyes of Christ". You cannot see it yet, so you are still blind in your "sins", leading the blind. Remove your world from your sight before attempting to address the world's "sins". You see the world you see because you deny Christ [Reality], choosing to see sin [insanity] instead. The Holy Spirit gives his world to the Son of God. If you do not identify with the Son, then your baptism is not yet complete, and you have more mind washing to accomplish. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. The Holy Spirit stands in for the Son of God, who makes the world as his mind wanders into darkness, saving his inheritance for him, anytime he chooses to return to the Light. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. As I've said, you are standing in hell aleady condemned...because you have thrown away knowledge [think: your inheritance] denying you are the Son of God ...and becoming every creeping thing, time, man...everything you are not. *Our Father* has only one Son, one Kingdom, one Creation. What then is this "earth"? Who is this "the universe" which so arrogantly usurps the ONLY Creation? It must be hell. It must be the only Son...masked and mad with guilt. There are a number of Christians that have regular sin in their lives. Not really. By the time you are the "son of man", you are a robot. You do not "sin". You follow a script, written by the idol who made "you". It sets you up to look bad, accusing you of guilt all the while. And as you accept his judgment, you condemning yourself and your brothers to hell with you. You made the idol after you "sinned". You sinned once, once denying you are the Son of God...disbelieving in Christ [Reality]. Walking away from Christ [Self, Reality], you made a fantasy world, replacing *our Father* with one of your own making. This other father gives you what *Our Father* cannot/will not give you: Special love. *Our Father* loves all equally. Only in a fantastically mad world of unreality will "god" give you special love. It is this specialness that has betrayed you, and made hell out of Heaven. The definition of "sin" is the denial of Christ. This scenario, if at all, took place before the foundation of the world. Before the foundation of the world, there was the Father and his only Son, and his Son's "Son"...all equals, all the same, all unlimited in power. The world begins as the Father's only Son "leaves" the Kingdom, to wander off as anything but the Son of God, denying himself, and therefor denying he is his Father's Son. This is the only "sin", and it is only a "sin" if it is believed to be true, unchangeable, and worthy of punishment. It is not. It is a *mistake* calling for correction. It is not a "sin" demanding death. It is the god-of-this-world [an idol] which demands the death of the Son of God. Unable to kill mind or spirit, the idol schemes to possess the Son's mind, transforming him into "flesh". And now the Son can be killed. That is all that "flesh" is for. It is born to die. That is all. Christians maintain a belief in "sin" to avoid the truth about innocence. This serves to put Heaven off, shoving it into the future...prefering death to Life. Only minds possessed would prefer hell to Heaven, whitewashing hell with fancy names like "mother earth", "the universe", "life"...ect. It is unfortunate for them. But if they are following Jesus as best they can it doesn't matter at all. They have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus, therefore their sins are continuously washed away. No. If you accept sacrifice, your sins remain. If you accept mercy, your sins are washed away. Continually washing your mind with the words of Truth, you emerge innocent, having never sinned. How is that? Sin is a belief in your mind. It is a lie, and it has brainwashed you. It must be washed out with Truth. The Holy Spirit brings the words of Truth to this world from beyond. If you are baptized into the Holy Spirit, you will emerge as the "beloved Son" of God. If you are not emerging as the innocent Son of God who has never sinned, you must have been baptized by "the accuser" and/or his minions. This is one reference to the blood of Christ. There are others. The "life" of Christ is his mind, which you are using to assert your existence as "flesh"...the *son of man*. As you do so, you arrogantly drain the life-blood of Christ for your own purposes...sacrificing Christ that "you" may "live". This is not *Our Father's* Will. So you must not exist. Any semblence of existence comes at the expense of your own mind. So it is a sacrifice of Self, which is the sacrifice of Christ. You are anti-christ, sucking the life-blood out of your own Reality, to support the fantasy of form. 17Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. *Our Father* does not judge. But the god-of-this-world does, whom the early wanderers from *the Way* worshipped and feared as an empty way of life that was handed down by their forefathers...evolving into a "Judeo-Christian" empty way of life. *Our Father* loves impartially, blessing only. The god-of-this-world loves partially [therefore not at all], blessing AND cursing. It demands blessing in return, or else it curses. This does not describe *Our Father*. Sweet and bitter water cannot come from the same stream. Consider the blood of Christ to mean, "mind of Christ". If you have the mind of Christ, you are innocent, because you accept the Truth. Innocence is the truth. Guilt is a lie. The world does not exist, so the Truth is indeed without blemish or defect. Christianity is NOT a works religion. Some think it is. No one can do enough good to earn their way into Heaven. This is because no one could ever do enough "evil" to lose their place in Heaven, from which they came. The world is without consequence, either bad or "good". What matters is the Truth. What is the Truth? The Truth is you ARE the Son of God, perfect, without blemish. The world is a muddy mask over your eyes, blinding you to the Truth. Wash the mud off your eyes in the water of the words of Truth, and you will see that because you could not "lose" Heaven, you cannot "earn" it back. It is yours. Believe it or not. Believe it not, and you remain blind, having shut your eyes upon Reality, before the foundation of the world. Jesus
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are to be understood if you are to be saved. They are not really for you to define as you please. The Son is Self. Jesus - "the son of man" - is a self-concept of Self. Salvation is to save Self from its self-concepts which destroy the mind of Self, desecrating Self's "temple". "Jesus" saw the face of Christ in everyone and thereby remembered Self. He loved his neighbor as himSelf, seeing Self in all, without exception. In this way, his mind was healed and made whole [think: holy]. Returning his mind to holiness, Jesus layed down his so-called "life" of unholy separation [flesh], taking it up again as Self [Spirit]. Jesus layed down the "son of man" concept, letting it "die", taking up instead the "Son of God" as his reality. In this way, he showed *the Way* that you must "follow" if you are to be saved. The dying of the "son of man" was begun in the desert, before the baptism at the river Jordan. Emerging from the symbolic washing as the "beloved Son of God", the complete and perfect washing [baptism] occured over time...over three years of teaching, leading up to "the cross". Truth be told, the self-concept was "dead" before the cross, walking with/in the [Holy] Spirit, blowing where the Spirit blew. As such, he was "clean", and "unblemished". It was the Truth that hung upon the cross - in parody - slain before the foundation of the world. Truth has the attributes of a lamb: defenselessness. And yet, the Truth cannot be destroyed. The truth is: there is no "Jesus" because there is no world. There is only Christ. Christ is One and all. This is the Truth. The world is anti-christ, and not at all. Anti-christ is an experience begun upon the denial of Christ by ...[fill in the blank]. What can deny Christ? Denial is but a wish to blow out the candles of light and sanity, that something else may be born in sin and darkness. The wish to deny Christ is the sad birthday of an anti-christ. And what is the "number" of the anti-christ? *Many* manifested mostly for means to madness. Or, "man" for short. This is just so we're clear on the Christian view here. Jesus
Right, so this Father sent his only Son to die for the reason that the Father would promise this eternal life idea. So we have a narcissistical egocentric ritual Son killer requiring people to kill his Son for him, so that he would allow them to "live" forever to worship what would by now normally be considered a lunatic. What kind of a crummy deal is that supposed to be.
If you were out in public and a crazy person came at you with a knife, and another man came immediately to your aid and stopped this crazy at great risk to his own life, I know most people would be thankful. This stranger helped when he could have just run away. Seriously, maybe you would see this act of courage and compassion as stupid. As Screwtape would say: We know that He cannot really love: nobody can: it doesn't make sense.
Seriously, is that response supposed to be some sort of an analogy? It has little if anything to do with a ritual killer making promises of eternal life as if that was in some way being 'saved', only to allow the killer himself to be worshipped. It only takes a little thought to notice that is nothing to do with love and not a very attractive proposition at all.