Let me try and answer some of the responses that I have received on this post so far ....... As far as my 3 rules goes ......... I will tell you once more that you can either learn from the mistakes of others or you can do it the hard way as I did $100,000.00 dollars (that's 1/3 the value of my humble home). Secondly; Now that I am a profitable trader if I where to ever decide to sell my methods, not that I would because I didn't get into this to become an educator. I got into this to make a living from trading and the amazing lifestyle that it can bring mainly freedom. Really think about that, when these vendors ask you for money. Now that I can pull money from the markets, they are so big that it is really limitless as to my income, why in the world would I need anything from you, come on.... really use common sense here. If anything I would gladly tell anyone that really wants to know for free. This whole concept of secrecy is just a load of hog wash. There is NOTHING new. Everything that we do as traders has been done before by a lot more intelligent men/women than us. The truth of the matter is that I kept seeing the same advise and logic given over and over again by the greatest traders. I just didn't want to listen until finally after $100,000.00 worth of pain I had to decided that it was time to go back to the BASICS and start over this time with humility and common sense. The common theme's that I kept seeing over and over again where. 1. Control Your losses. 2. Trade 1 pattern (or whatever you use) until you know it inside and out upside down and backwards. This is the infamous KEEP IT SIMPLE RULE. Nothing will work forever and in order to learn how to understand the markets you need to understand that your methods will have strengths and weakness's. Once you know them you are home free because you know when to be in and when not. It really is that simple. 3. Make a business plan and follow it, write out goals and track results methodically this will give you your points of reference that you need to understand the markets behavior. 4. Patience and self control, the piece of mind to know that tomorrow is another day and I must learn from my mistakes or stop trading all together. (This is the hard one and there is no easy answer to it, it's just one of those things you have to go through to understand). There you have it a free method that didn't cost a dime. Apply anything to these fundamental trading truths and you can make an income from trading. As I said before it really doesn't matter if it's Fibs, Gann or a simple indicator like a moving average cross just find a method that makes sense to you and study it's strengths and weakness's and accept the fact that this is as good as it will get the rest is now up to me. As I mentioned earlier I really like Price Action and Chart Patterns I liked Linda Bradford's book (Street Smarts) and her Video Classic Chart Patterns $49.00 and $149.00. But before I even got to that stag though, I would read every single book in the classics section of this web site once or even twice. They are an absolute must if you are serious about this business. Just see if you have the disipline to do that and if you can do that you have the disipline to trade with real money. http://www.elitetrader.com/bo/index.cfm?action=showbooks&CatID=5 I truly hope this helps and I truly hope rooms like this continue to flourish as our best tools our each others experiences. Just watch the responses on these posts from this post, note the ones that agree versus the ones that argue, you will see that the greatest traders in here know these truths and the others who argue them are probably still in that (I'm smarter than everyone else mode) or there trying to sell you something ... LOL Good Luck and Good Trading ......
Nothing really RST just a reference point. Maybe sometime in the distant future I would like to start a Hedge Fund just to challenge myself and compare my results against the best in a monitored enviroment. That seems like fun ..........
Truly excellent post!!! I have been saying just this on ET for years. And of course, most people argue my point. (If asked, I will find the links to those posts from over 2 years ago...problem is there were so many, I wouldn't know where to start....There was a "Gems" series compiled by Tripack when I was writing as RS7). I would STILL give away (as I have) the "super secrets". They may be super, but secrets? I always said everything I learned I learned from more experienced traders and my own mistakes. My only disagreement with Sampson is that I do not feel that it is necessary to read all the "classics". Experience ....real trading experience is what helps most. I know everyone gives high praise to Livermore's "Reminiscences".....I found it interesting, but not particularly valuable as far as my trading went. I have said this before....my favorite book of that ilk is actually NOT a trading book at all, but a poker book. Herbert O. Yardley's "Education of a Poker Player". Both books deal with their own "games" as they were when written. Somewhat obsolete now. But the psychology never changes. They are both about winning. (Yardley's book is a little hard to find, but I was able to get an issue on Amazon about two years ago...had to wait maybe two weeks to get it.). Peace, RS
We all need to get an education somewhere. I do get something from everything I read. And I am reading all the time. SFO magazine is excellent and very practical for Futures and Single Stock Futures. I still think www.tradingmarkets.com is an excellent site for newbies. I just outgrew it. I also love the interactive CDs they offer on that site. Really good practice for newbies. And I got a lot out of the Don Miller tapes on Eminis and QQQ. I had to start somewhere. I use a lot of the basic ideas on those, but I designed my own indicators to suit me. I just think they are very expensive for what they contain, which is 1-6 basic ideas. I got a lot out of www.briarstock.com when I traded stocks. Great introduction to stock trading for newbies. Now I am in a large chatroom with other experienced traders calling Emini trades all day. I learn valuable things all day. But for the inexperienced, it would be useless and distracting. A lot of crap is on a public chat. Just like Elite Trader. Have to be selective on who to listen to.
What you say is trading common sense but I feel as if you are greedy after six months of being winning. Pretending that you have lost 100000$ because of others is a bit exaggerated : the 60000$ of trading loss is due to your own fault whatever methods you should have followed - even if they were craps. As for the 40000$ well surely, it depends when you entered the field. With Internet, information is much more abundant and less costfull than when it didn't exist - which was my case when I entered the field. What is probably sure is that even knowing what isn't worth has a cost. You say there is no secret I say that it is like saying that any other field has no secret: there is no secret but there is some know-how and know-how is informal and much more costful to acquire than formal knowledge in books notably it requires your own practice. You can practice to become a programmer as you can practice to become a trader except that in trading it is much more costfull especially in futures. According to futures truth article in stock & commodities it's 50000$ loss in average for newbies to learn how NOT to lose - not yet how to win. So I have recommended to practice with paper trading. And if you can't afford the potential loss just don't enter the game ! Those who couldn't afford and finally succeded are lucky but how many are not there any more (I encountered personnaly many years ago a guy who lost 1 million on sp500 after 9 months of winning: he then stopped although he could afford the loss he understood that he was just lucky for a few months.) ? So one must keep things in perspective: after hindsight it's easy to say I could have avoided all the loss but it's like when you regret not to have cut a small loss instead of a big one.
I feel I am quite lucky that I never buy any system or attend any seminar. I just read some books like elder, kaufmann and tried the web version of WealthLab. I also use simulators. Then I started to trade in very small. The amounts I lost before I made it(~$1k) are so small in comparison to those systems/seminars. I think the market is the best place to learn trading.
Well, that's a pretty salty statement! After reading your entire post, I find the above statement is the only point for which I disagree. You've made an excellent post; it's a great contribution. Where you find entertainment (laughs) I find a wealth of information. I've been a lurker of this and other forums, and they are now my primary source of education. Here's why: Posters, such as yourself: Experienced professionals will jump in from time to time to add clarity to the topic of debate. Posters, such as sampson77: He's sharing a bad experience so that others can benefit from it. That takes guts, because it opens one up for criticism. Yet, it's really educational for those who come to sites like this without trading experience. Links and resources: What a goldmine! Helpful posters share what they've found. I found ET from another forum. I've found other resources from ET. Again, What a goldmine! Debates: Arguments from different perspectives are enlightening. There are very intelligent people posting on these forums. Anyone who thinks they know it all--only need to post their opinion to receive a dose of humility. There's a wealth of information to be gleaned from this type of point-counterpoint discourse. Sincerely helpful people: When a post is made from an obviously naive person, many come forward to offer guidance. While those posts will typically have a few sarcastic and mean-spirited replies, the bulk of responders will set the overall tone with extremely good advise, tools, website links, etc. Thank you Elite Trader for your collective wealth of excellent information, wisdom, and help.