Beck: Good for Jews that Jesus didnt come for payback

For someone who says they are not religious by any stretch, you sure get very abusive as an apologist for religion.

Strange. So accordingly , you definitely can’t know if your great granddaddy was fictional or non-fictional other than by your own existence?

Refusing method and all knowledge derived from understanding how people and events are made non-fictional without dna, would also eventually deny your lineage as there is no dna for your early ancestors.
(assuming you are the result of parentage )

More inclined to believe a billion people? .... then you must believe Allah and Mohammed are real. Zeus and all the Greek Gods are non fictional in that case .

The old "everybody does it" fallacy should incline you towards believing if everybody jumped off a cliff, you should do that too. The billion people argument is just a way of admitting you don't think for yourself.

In the usual substantive way of determining fiction and non-fiction, there really is nothing to support Bible Jesus as anything other but fictional.
It's why there is nothing to show the character is non-fictional. It's very simple.

 

Are you seriously trying to suggest 12 versions of the Bible change the Bible from a book of fictional tales to non-fictional ? So why 12? Could 10 versions not have done it. Or just 1?
What about 12 versions of Robin Hood of Loxley. Would a magic 12 make that non-fiction.

Instead of trying to prove your point by insult , tell me exactly how you blindly accepting a non-fictional Jesus , is any different from peil blindly accepting non-fictional Adam & Eve. Essentially the same book. Same ridiculous nonsense.

You believe Jesus was a real person. Fine. Others think King Arthur is non-fictional because of the stories about his Round Table.

If I have no more proof that Shakespeare existed than Jesus, then you nor I can have any more proof your grandpa existed or that Lincoln did or that Jesus did..
I just say I have no information as to whether they were fictional or non fictional, when quite clearly I do.

There is substantial authentic verifiable historical information available to you me or anyone else for Lincoln and your grandpappy. Not just one story in 12 versions of the same fantasy story book.

It is apparent that blind-siding any pesky facts to the contrary is the only way unreasoning faith can convince someone Jesus is non-fictional.

Trying to make serious comments on a fictional character as if it was not so , no matter who is trying it on , is basically , well.... just silly.
"The Jews killed Superman" ...yeah ok, maybe you do have a point.

A non fictional Bible Jesus is not credible. There is no historical evidence to change that..
A character in cultural heritage yes. Just as fictional as Allah and a myriad of other gods are.

 

It seems to me like there are an awful lot a Christians out there that seem absolutely positive that Jesus is, of course, unique and the first of his kind. They are unaware that the myth of their Christ is similar to several other god-men myths. Here are some of those other mythical god-men that Jesus, the Christian Messiah, apparently shares roots with. Does anything about these Gods that predate the christian God sound familiar? Think about these the next time you read the bible and ask yourself why do Gods that predate christianity have the same attributes as biblegod.
Of course the answer is very clear if you open your mind to the truth. Christianity is a mismash of earlier religions that borrowed its myths from earlier gods. Here is a list of some earlier gods. Does anything sound familiar:
Zoroaster/Zarathustra

--Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.”
--He was baptized in a river.
--In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom.
--He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil.
--He began his ministry at age 30.
--Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.”
--He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man.
--He taught about heaven and hell, and revealed mysteries, including resurrection, judgment, salvation and the apocalypse.
--He had a sacred cup or grail.
--He was slain.
--His religion had a eucharist.
--He was the “Word made flesh.”
Zoroaster’s followers expected a “second coming” in the virgin-born Saoshynt or Savior, who is to come in 2341 CE and begin his ministry at age 30, ushering in a golden age.

Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles.
--As the “great bull of the Sun,” Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
--He was buried in atomb and after three days rose again.
--His resurrection was celebrated every year.
--He was called “the Good Shepherd” and identified with both the Lamb and the Lion.
--He was considered the “Way, the Truth and the Light,” and the “Logos,” [Word] “Redeemer,” “Savior” and “Messiah.”
--His sacred day was Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
--Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter.
--His religion had a eucharist or “Lord’s Supper,” at which Mithra said, “He who shall nto eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved.”
--“His annual sacrifice is the Passover of the Magi, a symbolical atonement of pledge of moral and physical regeneration.”
Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to altar to doxology, are directly taken from earlier Pagan mystery religions.



Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.
--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.
--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers
--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”
--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.
--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.

Dionysus/Bacchus

Dionysus or Bacchus is thought of as being Greek, but he is a remake of the Egyptian god Osiris, whose cult extended throughout a large part of the ancient world for thousands of years. Dionysus’s religion was well-developed in Thrace, northeast of Greece, and Phrygia, which became Galatia, where Attis also later reigned. Although a Dionysus is best remembered for the rowdy celebrations in his name, which was Latinized as Bacchus, he had many other functions and contributed several aspects to the Jesus character:

--Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an a##.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.


Horus/Osiris of Egypt


In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.” Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed
more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was
identified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He
had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods.
He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god
who “made men and women to be born again.” Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the
Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven.
They believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done . . .”
Osiris’s coming was announced by Three Wise Men: the three stars Mintaka, Anilam, and
Alnitak in the belt of Orion, which point directly to Osiris’s star in the east, Sirius (Sothis),
significator of his birth . . .
Certainly Osiris was a prototypical Messiah, as well as a devoured Host. His flesh was eaten
in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the “plant of Truth.” . . . The cult of Osiris contributed
a number of ideas and phrases to the Bible. The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing
to Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the “green pastures” and “still waters” of the
nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow
of death (the Tuat). The Lord’s Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen
beginning, “O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven.” Amen was also invoked at the end of every
prayer.

As Col. James Chruchward naively exclaims, “The teachings of Osiris and Jesus are wonderfully alike. Many passages are identically the same, word for word.”

Osiris was also the god of the vine and a great travelling teacher who civilized the world. He was the ruler and judge of the dead. In his passion, Osiris was plotted against and killed by Set and “the 72.” Like that of Jesus, Osiris’s resurrection served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal.

Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”
--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”

 

Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago [1500 years before Jesus’ alleged advent] on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the “Holy Ghost,” impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended bh three kings, or magi, bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis—the original “Madonna and Child.” As Massey says:

It was the Gnostic art that reproduced the Hathor-Meri and Horus of Egypt as the Virgin
and child-Christ of Rome . . . You poor idiotai, said the Gnostics [to the early Christians],
you have mistaken the mysteries of old for modern history, and accepted literally all that
was only meant mystically.
Krishna of India

The similarities between the Christian character and the Indian messiah Krishna number in the hundreds, particularly when the early Christian texts now considered apocrypha are factored in. It should be noted that a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was “Christna,” which reveals its relation to “Christ.” Also, in Bengali, Krishna is reputedly “Christos,” which is the same as the Greek for “Christ” and which the soldiers of Alexander the Great called Krishna. It should be further noted that, as with Jesus, Buddha and Osiris, many people have believed and continue to believe in a historical Krishna. The following is a partial list of the correspondences between Jesus and Krishna:
--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
--He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
--Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”
--He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy . . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”
--Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuina or Ar-jouan (Jouhn).
--He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
--He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.
--His path was “strewn with branches.”
--In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
--Krishna was killed around the age of 30, and the sun darkened at his death.
--He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”
--He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.
--Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”
--He was called the “Shepherd of God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”
--He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.
--He was the second person of the Trinity.
--His disciples purportedly bestowed upon him the title “Jezeus,” or “Jeseus,” meaning “pure essence.”
--Krishna is to return to judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the “Prince of Evil,” who will desolate the earth.

 

Is Jesus a historical figure?

-People with credibility - yes because he is mentioned in historical acounts.

- Stu and Others - no because we do not have video tape of the sermon on the mount.

 

Alright - even God is getting tired of it now (as reported by The Onion).

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-hinting-at-retirement,17747/

"God Hinting At Retirement"

 

Are you really thinking that there are people who believe that Jesus did not exist, and was not an actual human being who lived, ate, drank, etc? Theories can also be tools to achieve other aims.

 

The latter part is in contradiction with the day of Judgment. Also, people are curious by nature, and would look for facts, not to blame anyone but to know the truth.

 

uhhh perhaps you should re-read the thread, stu has been going on for pages that Jesus did not exist as a human being.

 

It is pretty obvious to every single person on this thread that STU doesnt believe in Jesus as the son of god either, WTF is your point?