Using your "friend" as an exception to the rule is meaningless. In general if illegals paid their own way then I doubt there would be any problems. In fact I think the gov would just open the flood gates. BTW, how does an illegal go about paying taxes on trading?
wasnt the united states built on immigrants. How many of the top scholars in universities are immigrants. If you ever been to a university campus, you would see a huge majority are either 1st or 2nd generation children of immigrants. Also almost a third of master degree students are foreigners or immigrants. If you go to any tech company, you would see a majority of the engineers are either immigrants, or 1st or 2nd generation children of immigrants, and thats for all sciences.
thats what they use to say about irish. that they were too diffrent, unclean, unworthy to be americans. how many americans now are descendants of those settlers?
unfortunately the laws need yo be updated. you need to have limits on where people come from. Europe is in a terrible mess because of all the moslems that have flooded in both legally and illegally.. In Sweden their numbers are so large that moslem kids have t-shirts that say in 2030 we take over. In paris there are certain moslem areas of the city where the police do not go in at night and women were veils for fear of being raped. many moslems in Europe believe of their large number that they will be able to create a moslem state someday in Europe with koran law. the price for cheap labor is very high.
economy will not collapse just because illegals are prevented from working, life will get more expensive though. How much do you guys pay for petrol in the US? We pay around $1.60 a litre and cigarettes are around $8 in the UK and average income per household is less and general living expenses are higher here. We survive...
mahram, you're not making any sense. What do the Irish have anything to do with what I said? I said illegals can come back legally. Did I say they were unworthy, unclean, etc???? What are you smokin? Reading your response to madmunny it seems you do not grasp what people are saying. Let me CLEAR things up for you.... No one has any problems with immigrants! I don't recall seeing any posts that were anti-immigrant, show me one if you find one. People are saying they have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. People that decided to smuggle themselves into the US are not welcome. Are you confusing all immigrants as illegals or something?!
what is your point? europe is in terribel shape because of the large influx of moslems. both legal and illegal.. "The Lebanonization of Europe Books By FRED SIEGEL February 23, 2006 The storm over the Danish cartoons has been mistakenly described as a debate over the limits of free speech. One of the milder posters carried during a Londonistan anti-cartoon protest read "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS WESTERN TERRORISM." The coverage in the mainstream American press has ranged from the banal to the bizarre, depicting broad-minded Danes and Dutchmen as raving xenophobes for refusing to tolerate Muslim intolerance. But the controversy is actually about a struggle for power involving Muslim intimidation and the mandatory multiculturalism of the European political class. Flemming Rose, the Jyllands-Posten editor who published the cartoons in response to ongoing self-censorship by a cowed European press, has explained that what the rioters and their politically correct apologists are demanding is not "respect" but "my submission." Judging by the craven response of the British government and most of the European political class, they are succeeding. The Islamist leadership across Europe seems now to have largely achieved veto power over the press - except in Denmark - while in the name of multiculturalism, Muslims are subject to no such restraints. "They think they have won the debate," a British researcher and a convert to Christianity who attended a madrassa as a child in his native Guyana, Patrick Sookhdeo, said. "They believe that the British Government has capitulated to them, because it feared the consequences if it did not." The lesson for Europe's Muslims, he said, is that violence and the threat of violence work.What will follow, according to ICM Research, well-respected pollsters of British Muslims, is a demand in England (and elsewhere) for Islamic extraterritoriality, granting official government recognition to Shariah law in predominantly Muslim areas. In practice, Shariah has already been partly imposed by Islamic thugs in sections of the British Midlands, as well as the suburbs of Paris and Stockholm. Since women walking in these neighborhoods are subject to stoning and rape, even non-Muslim women have donned the chador as a way of protecting themselves. And in the Netherlands, the upper-middle-class response to aggressive Islamism has been migration to the United States, Canada, and Australia February 23, 2006 Edition > Section: Arts and Letters Printer-friendly version Email this article Fortunately, two new commanding and readable books illuminate the landscape of Europe's constricting future. Bruce Bawer's "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam Is Destroying the West From Within" (Doubleday, 256 pages, $23.95) and Claire Berlinski's "Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too" (Crown Forum, 288 pages, $25.95) are remarkably complementary. Mr. Bawer, who is an American from Queens, and fluent in both Dutch and Norwegian, is best on Scandinavia and Denmark. Ms. Berlinski, an American who now makes her home in Paris and Istanbul, covers Britain, France, and Germany. They both make it clear that part of the problem of the European welfare states is not so much that Muslim integration has failed but that it has never really been tried. Immigrants to Britain, notes Ms. Berlinski, don't need to learn English. Social-service pamphlets are translated into their languages by an already large and growing social-service bureaucracy that lives well off the failure to incorporate the newcomers. For his part, Mr.Bawer describes the numerous methods by which Muslims have actively resisted integration. There is the practice known as "dumping," in which Muslim parents send their children back to the home country to be "educated" at schools where the Koran is virtually the only text. Similarly, women accused of leading a "European life" are sent back by their families or clans to their native lands for re-education. In their place, brides steeped in Islamic tradition are imported from the old country. The effect is that growing populations are in Europe but not of it. To make matters worse, the rigid structures of the European economies make it difficult to get work while an easy access to welfare makes it unnecessary, so that the newcomers aren't even integrated into the workplace. Still, despite Europe's slow growth and generous benefits for not working, many thousands of dark-skinned Hindus in England, Armenians in France, and Poles in Germany are climbing the European ladder. But Muslims are different, notes Mr. Bawer: They see themselves as having a God-given authority that has "made them superior to infidels." The job of turning Muslims in the Netherlands into Dutch Muslims, both Mr. Bawer and Ms. Berlinski argue, is made all the more difficult by the European loss of identity. First nationalism replaced Christianity, notes Ms. Berlinski, and now, in reaction to the memories of the two world wars, the European Union has, with some success, hollowed out the idea of distinct national characters. Today, for the European political class, nationalism, or any form of populism, carries a distinctly fascist odor. But membership in the European Union is not an identity with any emotional resonance. Even more significant is the sense, which both authors discuss at length, of European self-loathing. The "spice" of multiculturalism is seen as a welcome addition to the bland European stew. When a Swedish integration official was asked, "Is Swedish culture worth saving?" she replied, "What is Swedish culture?" Her assumption and that of the E.U. political class is that Europeans have to adapt to Muslims, not the other way around. And indeed Sweden, in the wake of the Danish cartoon affair, now seems to have given its imams veto power over what's said about Islam in the Swedish press. Behind the self-loathing is the sense that after World War I, totalitarianism,and World War II, there is only a botched civilization that can provide the security of the welfare state but not much more than a bureaucratic identity. Still, there is one part of what was once the West that Europeans loathe more than their own: the United States. Europe's largely unaccountable political class and the Islamists are brought together by a shared hostility to the United States. In fact, they tend to fear America far more than Al Qaeda. Western Europe's left-wing lumpen-intellectuals, Mr. Bawer notes, are "half in love with tyranny." The British House of Commons even gave a minute of silence for the memory of the slain Hamas leader Sheik Yassin. Anti-Americanism, Mr. Bawer and Ms. Berlinski note, is increasingly the political glue that holds Europe together,if only to repudiate the American cowboys who had the bad taste not only to liberate the Continent repeatedly but to surpass it in the process. Thus Europeans invariably defend antiquated labor practices that restrain job creation as an alternative to "the American [read: savage] condition." Worse yet, criticism of Muslims - even when they engage in female genital mutilation, honor killings, or attacks on gays and Jews - is almost invariably defined as "Islamophobic."This has led the Danish journalist Helle Brix to comment bitterly, "If at some time in the not-too distant future fundamentalist Muslims began rounding up Jews, it would be racism to resist." But then again the Danes are different.They were the one who saved their Jews in World War II, and it was the Danes, remembering Sweden's collaboration with the Nazis, who quipped, "What is a Swede? But a German in human form." The question for self-destructive Europe now is whether Danish courage will spread or remain merely an anomaly. It's hard to do full justice to the rich material in these two books. Ms. Berlinski, for instance, has a fascinating chapter on the Nazi aesthetic of Rammstein, Germany's most popular band. But if the books have any weaknesses it is the lack of a historical framework. In 1979, the combination of Khomeinei's revolution in Iran, the second oil shock, which gave Saudi Arabia even more money to fund Wahhabi mosques in Europe, and the victory of mujahedeen in Afghanistan changed the way European Muslims defined themselves. Their sense that Islam was once again on the march is the essential backdrop to these books. Europe, smug in its certainty that its vast sophistication - as opposed to American "militarism" - would pave the way to the future, has been slow to react to the problems posed by Muslim immigration. When there is rioting, the answer is always more dialogue. But then again, Europe's insistence on dialogue as the solution to all problems is often difficult to distinguish from appeasement. Mr. Siegel is the author of "Prince of the City: Giuliani, New York and the Genius of American Life" from Encounter Books" america needs to learn from the mistakes of europe.
I simply provided a basic answer to the initial question, how one interprets it is a different matter. There are negative and positive factors involved from allowing illegals working. Most of the time it would benefit a potential political spin/s. I made a simple statement, but there is no simple solution.
zdreg, think of it this way. The Muslims are about 400-600years behind the Europeans. They are where the Europeans were during the dark-middle ages. Confused. During that time Europe was in the grasp of franatical religous leaders, the catholic church. Religon and politics were heavily mixed up, just like it is today in the muslim. That shit didn't work, with all the killings and people fleeing Europe to the Americas. Europe eventually crawled out of the confusion. The middle east is still there today. It is obviously having trouble coping with the modern world. Who aren't the muslims not fighting with? From the west to south east asia. Fighting, fighting, fighting. Now what can be done about it? I dunno. But first everyone needs to understand they are dealing with people who are backwards 400-600 years from everyone today.
Correction: the US was built on legal immigrants. The H1B knowledge workers and foreign grad students you site are here legally. How does the grunt work get done legally? Staffing companies should go abroad and bring back willing laborers for seasonal and short- term assignments. www.gmpusa.com