Average of 5 pt a day trading ES realistic?

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by nicbizz, May 31, 2010.

  1. nicbizz


    I've been involved in some way with the investing world for the past 10 years, and while I've had experience in swing trading (with mixed results), I realized that I'm less keen about the stress of holding overnight positions as I got older!

    So, here I am thinking about compressing my trading time frame, and keeping it to within the market hours aka day trading. I've read through loads of threads here - the Journals, Geez's especially, were incredibly helpful - and I've formulated what I believe to be a decent strategy based on price action.

    I'm wondering though, if expecting an average of 5pt a day from trading ES (net of stop loss), is something realistic, or I'm just dreaming too much. Current volatility, I can see it doable, but I'm hoping to hear from veterans here who've been through all kinds of market conditions, and wouldnt mind sharing a bit of wisdom on how hard/impossible my expectations are.

    For those who are wondering why this is important, it is a matter of opportunity costs for me. Unless I can make a fairly decent living out of trading, then perhaps I should consider an alternate career and make better use of the capital that I have.

    Thanks in advance!
  2. If you are asking is it realistic to net 5 points per ES contract per day, the answer is no.

    Breaking even would be a realistic goal.
  3. Do you have an edge?

    Depending on the edge, how many times a day you trade it and daily volatility defines what you can profit in a day.

    Most ES traders cannot make a profit of 1 point per contract per day let alone 5 points.
  4. It takes a long time to become consistently profitable as a day trader. It took me almost two years, and I think that's about par for the course. (That was after 7 years as a profitable swing/options trader.)

    Harsh reality: You can't just expect to walk onto a competitive field dominated by professionals and expect to be in the top 10% (the other 90% are losers). Until your trading strategy has been battle tested, your trading goals (whatever they may be) are just a pipe dream.

    To answer your question: Sometimes 5 points a day is easy and other times impossible. You CAN be consistently profitable in all kinds of markets, but you can only take what the market will give you.

    If you want to be a successful daytrader, learn how to trade. That takes time. Profits come later.

  5. ammo


    if you bought a truck and the tools and the lumber and had a job site to go to,with no experience,and they hired you as a carpenter,how far into the day do you think you would get before being sent home,or realizing you were in over your head,,,,a hundred to two hundred 2x4's would go up per day if you were a carpenter,.... $250 a day is realistic if you were a trader,....sounds like you are not,...most trades require on the job training that you can't learn in class....when hired you start off at the bottom learning and applying that to advance your skillset,....trading is no different...although anyone can open an acct and start trading,few succeed with that plan.....i suggest working on charts and sim trading for a year or two learning about trading..... while keeping another profession to put a roof over your head....,then come back and maybe the carpenter might hire you to sweep and carry lumber,...or you may have a chance at making 250 a day trading,....right now the markets are like a ravenous monster on the loose devouring every trader and his money in site, not a good time to stick your toe in the water , its boiling ..so if your wondering about opportunity costs how much money and how much time can you stand to lose before catching on
  6. Kap


    5 pts a day is very much possible, if you have been around long enough to read the signs
  7. Most traders with an edge might not even make 1 point a week!!! so they need to trade 100 contract to make one hell of a living.

    how many contract can you trade? if its less then 10 dont even try to daytrade ES because you wont be able to trade for living.

    And btw, if you have stress holding overnight positions you are OVERLEVERAGED,:D
  8. spd


    Trading is extremely difficult, but that just isnt true.

    If you are trader with an edge who can't net 1 point/week then you arent a trader and you dont have an edge. You are a mouse clicker and a hoper.
  9. The key is to find a balance between the amount of points and number of contracts.

    As my dear friend Porgie would often say

    "Success comes in upping the contracts, not the points"
  10. Clearly OP has a nice little pipe dream going where he will make 5pts a day on the ES and live a life of luxury. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen. A couple points of reality:

    1) If you have to ask, you suck at trading and will lose, not win. -10pts/day is easily possible.
    2) It's all but impossible with a day trading strategy to capture more than about 10% of ATR on average, at least in something as heavily looked at as ES And that's with a strategy with a solid technical edge. Since you don't have that edge, or you would know how much you got per day, again you're looking at a consistent -5 to -10pts.
    #10     May 31, 2010