Who said the entire science of astronomy is incorrect? Talk about a fallacious response. Look, this is easy. Early astronomers thought the sun revolved around the earth, right? Then they got better instrumentation and came to a different conclusion, right? So does that mean that today's "scientific" conclusions are representative of the origin of the Universe? No, it doesn't. They may be, they may not be. Scientists often say that the theory is a "best" guess, but it is still a guess. What I find amusing is how the so called "scientists" present their belief systems (yes, taking a theory to be true without ability to verify it is a belief system) just as dogmatically as theists do, and get just as angry and emotional as fundamentalist theists when they are challenged. Scientists, real scientists that I have had interactions with are actually quite humble about their work, with little ego and attachment to their findings, and I have found them always careful to understand that what they are presenting that is speculative in nature, i.e. theories like big bang, are just that speculative. They have no need to try to replace faith, nor attack faith, as it is not an issue, nor a factor in their work. They work within the boundaries of their discipline, and remain uninvolved in anything that extends beyond the limitations of their work. Those who embrace the the theories of science with strong emotional faith and attachment to the human mind's creations, are not being scientific at all, just masquerading themselves as such. They are seeking a replacement for God, because they have made a decision not to have faith in God. Again, my experience, but I have found real scientists very curious about many things, including the possibility of God's existence. They remain Agnostic, which means very open to something new which has not yet come to their mind or direct experiences.
\ Vhehn - How can I get it through to you that it is not the theists who are making the argument. And it is not the argument of complexity. It is two of the greatest minds we have in physics throwing out,untestable, theory to avoid coming to the only rational conclusion. Would Stephen Hawking and this other English Guy be promoting untestable theory if they were not having a reaction to the basic conclusion scientists are making. That this universe is almost infintessimally lucky to be here - whcih is the same as saying we were chosen or designed. Hey, I am not saying science will not learn something knew, what I am saying is that with our current state of knowledge, athiests have no scientific explanation to say their belief is more rational than someone who thinks the univers was created by somene or something. That is scientific fact as we know it.
IMO, even if the entire world's population were atheists, it would make little difference to divisiveness between countries & cultures. People would just come up with some other stupid idea to add "meaning" to their life, and create arbitrary social groups on nonsensical grounds. Don't forget that the official stance of the former communist bloc was atheist - yet they invented and slavishly followed one of the most moronic systems of living ever to have been conceived of. Religion is a symptom of human stupidity, not a cause of it.
Wow! What an incredible display of pure, stunning ignorance. Thank you for perfectly illustrating why it's pointless to argue with the those who have exchanged logic and reason for blind, ignorant faith. To many, statements like Jem's probably look like simple stupidity, but sadly, it's worse than that. It's the deliberate suppression of rational thought in exchange for the mind numbing anesthesia known as faith that causes him to spew nonsense in a vain attempt to "prove" that which cannot be proven. Most have heard the usual refrain: "God wrote the Bible! Well, OK, actually a bunch of guys wrote the Bible, but, they were 'inspired' by God." "How do you know that?!" "Why, it says so, right here in the Bible!" I guess the mystic's desire to prove he "has faith" and that he "believes enough" to be "saved" is so strong, he will present fantasy and speculation as fact and truth. It is really the ultimate "big lie". Gather the sheep together to listen to a con man say it loud and with conviction from a raised platform while wearing impressive robes inside a big building and intersperse some inspiring music, and perhaps they can convince themselves it really IS all true. "It must be, we can't possibly all be wrong!" Yes, you can be wrong. The poor mystic's number one problem is he can never, ever be sure his faith is pure enough. Oh, he can claim he is "saved" all he wants, but he can never truly know.
Mysticism and religion are mutually exclusive, quark. As much, as is claimed otherwise, which is a lot.