ATM Iron Butterfly - Why is it Delta Negative?

Discussion in 'Options' started by ValZ2020, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. ValZ2020

    ValZ2020

    So that means that the long put will have a much higher IV than the long call that is equidistant from the ATM and will obviously be more expensive, but does that always mean a much bigger delta? I just checked on a number of highly liquid stocks today that seem to be trading options with an IVol that is in the higher 52 week percentile, and the difference in the deltas between equidistant calls and puts doesn't seem to be all that big...
     
    #31     Apr 20, 2020
  2. Atikon

    Atikon

    So IV concentrates even more the closer the Optionchain comes to expiration, thats why you can adjust to take profits at 10% (look at the wings getting closer and closer, the less time you have, the shorter time for the volatility to swing to the OTM price, you move down to get to the steepest point IV Rank Delta/Strike Delta if I'm seeing interpreting this correctly. @stepandfetchit might help me out with this one. Step what program do you use to do these diagramms?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
    #32     Apr 20, 2020
  3. It may be easier to observe if you just look at the Delta of some Verticals: Note the difference in the absolute value of the Call Verticals VS the PUT Verticals. The difference is small, but persists for the strikes you will have in your Iron Fly. My plot was intended to help illustrate why they are different, but is not apparent unless you drill into the detail. If the Iron Flys were placed to the right of that hand-drawn blue line, the initial delta should be positive instead of negative, however the underlying price in that region is not very enticing! The initial Delta should be near zero if place close to that blue line intersection of the terms. Again, the Delta difference is small. I think you (or someone) posted an example with the delta beginning at -28 or so. (I used your numbers and arrived at -8.4 for that case, but am reading between the lines as I do not have access to your document. Here is a sample of where I tried to reconstruct what I thought was stated (or intended):

    upload_2020-4-20_13-43-16.png
     
    #33     Apr 20, 2020
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  4. Atikon

    Atikon

    yeah that was me, I meant his second question. Adjusting the Long Strangles at 10% profit/move them down. 4 comments up/linked in my last comment. What program do you use to illustrate the IV?
     
    #34     Apr 20, 2020
  5. Atikon: program is Perl code I wrote, which drives gnuplot (a free tool) for the ploting. If you have gnuplot installed, I can provide the plots if you like. Allows you to rotate the 3-D view, which can be nice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
    #35     Apr 20, 2020
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  6. ValZ2020

    ValZ2020

    that's right, that's what Chen and Sebastian put down in that book on pages 106 and 107 as examples (except it was the ATM call that was 49.3 and the ATM put was -50.6 not vice versa, so the actual delta equates to -5.8) and then they say "with a delta of -28 you buy a call to flatten the delta" right underneath which kinda baffled me. Maybe just a typo, like someone here suggested...
     
    #36     Apr 20, 2020
  7. ValZ2020

    ValZ2020

    But wouldn't that mean that your wider strike longs (your original long strangle) will also go down in price by a lot, so sell to close them would generate less than what you need to buy to open the narrower wings, so it'll be a net debit transaction eating up your profit from the time decay of the "thorax"? Or you mean you buy the narrower wings, spending less on the net debit then the profit you got from the decayed thorax?
     
    #37     Apr 20, 2020
  8. taowave

    taowave

    I think you are sort of missing the bigger picture.You bought the fly,it went your way and the wings most likely got hammered.

    At this point,you should look at the verticals you are theoretically short(rolling the wings closer to ATM)..do you want to be short verticals trading at pennies???

    I dont stay short 20 point verticals for 15 cents...
     
    #38     Apr 20, 2020
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