at what moment I become successful

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by trader198, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. I traded 4k account after I laid off several years ago. first I traded very agressively, I went up quickly and I got good enough grubstakes.

    in those days, I was nervous. but I stick to common sense: buy low and sell high, follow major trend. basically I was fast in and fast out, day trading, when I got stuck, I chose to wait, I did not use stop loss.

    I once tried stop loss, but I got bad experience about stop loss. I started to become very nervous about being token out by stop loss. frequently I was stopped out, and lost. that ruined my pschology. I started to study TA delibrately, I found the more I study, the more I become nervous. if I play support/resistance, then the market plays trending and breakout; if I play trending/breakout, the market plays resistance/support. when I stick to support/resistance trading, the market keeps trending/breakout; when I stick to trending/breakout, the market keeps support/resistance range band. very frustrated. at some point, I feel I could not do it any more.

    I feel very strange: when I traded 4k account, how could I go up to 40k ~50k? even I did not have any experience at that moment. trading to me at those days is so natural. but try to become professional, I stumbled.

    I was puzzled about this paradox.

    I read through Mark Bouch's trading tutorial. he said: selection always beats Mr. market timer. I was puzzled about his statement too.

    then I suddenly realized. I was too obsessed with TA, and I have misconception about TA: if someone traded with TA, that is professional. also misconception about cutting loss, money management.

    when I look back to my trades, gee, why I leave so much money on the table. when I look to the indeces, the crisis are heaven sent opportunity to buy, why bother to get out so early, missed lots of big moves in the way up!

    I realized how dangerous/risky it is frequently in and frequently out! chose a trend and stay there is so safe!

    when I realize the market is safe no matter what I do, I found I am back to old me again, enjoy the market very much. I will not panic if the market is against me. I will not trade for the sake of pure TA, if I miss key point, not ideal entry, I can tolerate it. I can think 30points againt me in ES as just 1000shares of a 30bucks stock against me 1.5points, 2points in sweet crude against me is a 1000shares of 50 bucks stock. I can ignore 5minutes chart totally!

    I opened new account in TD beyond IB recently. I started to buy in the money options (long-term, at least 3months ahead), not trade out of money weekly options. man, that feeling is so good.

    I think that is the moment when I start to become successful.
  2. how long have you been trading?
    how long successfully?
  3. I think you are at least 5 years from being successful.
  4. Daring


    or 6
  5. laid off in 2009. I heard one church friend day trading futures and made good money. I never heard of futures. first I was in try mode. late found it is so profitable. so I gave up searching jobs.

    the funny thing is when I become serious, I found I could not go ahead, stuck, the moment is I try very hard to study, make myself trade more professionally. I recorded 6months of sweet crude intra-day charts,each day I studied them, read lots of books, such as Jessise livemore's reminence, trading for a living, trading in the zone, enhancement trading, how to sell short by willam o'nello, pit bull by martin schwartz, quants, john's theory, random walk thery, elliot's wave theory, econimc indicators...

    I spent too much time on stop loss, and lost chuck of my profit in trying stop loss. it damaged my psychology. I just could not figure out, why I could not make money when I thought I trade more professionally.

    late when I start to trade options, in options, you can not study option charts (twisted by time value/decay/premium), I realize, trading needs ideas. technical ideas is just one factor. if I think too technically, just like throw a coin. in coin throwing, either head up or head down. in techincal trading, for example, if A drops from $60 to $50, then bounce to $55, then drop to $50, there is two guess: breakdown through $50, or bounce off $50 again? if you choose breakdown, but it bounces, if you choose bounce, it breakdown. from this anlysis, oh, I know that is gambling, the same as coin throwing.

    why I trade options? I want to exactly control my risk, I do not want to ride wrong way, and I did not realize it. the most important thing I know is: limit loss. but I know stop loss is not a good way to control loss, since the market is not crispy cut. stop loss is passive, put you in a tentative mode, not in a "must win mode".

    my options often lost 50% even 80% because I entered wrong time but with right ideas, end up very profitable.

    actually top traders like martin schartz did not use stop loss. in his first day mesa option trade, he averaged down ( that is a bad trading habit), down 3k, end up, he made 8k. in the election day, he shorted a strong rally, keep shorting even linit up (that means he does not use stop loss) lost 0.8M, if he uses stop loss, he already get stopped out. he bought s&p 500 in the drop, and keeping buying, and the pressure is so high, he danced on his trading desk to realse his pressure.

    Baldwin too, the meat manager. so I begin to focus on ideas, not those superfical things. not mislead everyone here, limit loss is very critical. stop loss is a very lousy way, even you put there, you can move or you can cheat yourself, and it does not protect overnight gap up/gap down, actually useless, just intra-day. if you deal with intr-day trading, acutaully you need fast fingers, stop loss slow down your reactions and curb your intutive, so it hurts. if you trade stocks, if a stock halted in trading session, your stop loss is useless too, after halt, often the market way up or way down. plus, the stinky slippage effect, you often sold at lowest point and bought at the highest point. that is why I trade options. all my risks are pre-determined beforehand no matter what, wheather gap down/gap up, halting, power outrage, slippage.

    when I started to focus on trading ideas, my equity curve become healthier, steadly climb.

    b.t.w, I traded before I laid off, but that is just several trades not more than 20 trades a year, I started to trade stocks in sept. 2004, cash account. at those period, most are buy and hold. overrall, make nothing and lose nothing. the first stock bought is a mexican rastraunt, the name I forgot. the stock has low volume, several months, does not move a little bit, sold with nothing gained, then bought a consulting penny company, this is a big company, bought at low (drop from 17 bucks to 2 to 3, then hold there at 2 to 3 one year), bought at 3, and it up/down around 3, sold with a slight loss because i coluld not tolerate and wait, after one month I sold out, the company boughtout at 5.8, I hate myself and kick my ass why I do not hold!

    so overrall plus those part-time trading, should be 8yrs.

    8 yrs.
  6. siki13


    :D :D
    I love when some 3 year old newbie starts spreading wisdom.
    I did that to . i still cringe when i remember ~5 years ago thinking
    how smart i am and post on forums, giving advice :D
  7. bat1


    Sounds like A BUNCH OF WASH SALES TO ME :D
  8. It seems like a lot of people do that to pump themselves up. Maybe they're trying to build a following to sell some newsletter service or some system. Easy to smash them down ask them to show success not talk about it or post stupid pixel screenshots. Watch them run away like some of these other clowns I've outed.

  9. there is no news letter. or sales. just want to give some people some encouragement.

    I am an amateur. not an elite trader or professional trader, sometime rogue trading, against most peole's rule . but I am successful, not boast a little bit at all.

    I just feel amused how people learned to learn losing money using stop loss. this morning gap down definitely stop you out, you are out but we are back.

    most people like those superficial things. that is why those dropouts beat those people who have lots of degrees or certificates on their walls.

    be practical. the finacial market is the same as those you see phsically. trading need minds. need think independtly.