well, even then I would be hard pressed to believe a plumber in NYC would earn north of 100k. Why would a plumber in NYC earn more than a teacher, nurse, .....in NYC? Fact of the matter is that this job requires one of the least training and licensing/oversight among other handcraft jobs. There is just no economic reason. And I dont bite into the supply/demand argument either. Look, nurses are in high demand and there are not enough out there in the market, yet they dont earn 100k.
Union scale in NYC is over $40/hour on the check. Almost $60/hr with benefits. You need to go through a 5-year apprenticeship and get an associates degree with some locals. Most plumbers don't do just plumbing either. There are different sub-disciplines of plumbing such as boiler work, gas piping, medical gas, sprinklers, and even building controls/automation on the HVAC side. Boiler work, for example, is extremely dangerous and pays well for good reason. BTW, lots of nurses in NYC make $100k+. RNs do anyway. Not LPNs.
fuxx the unions, unions are antiquated and a thing of the past, even Obama can't change that. Look how they interfered with the GM/FORD discussions. While I believe most mistakes have been committed by upper management I am not surprised car companies and air lines will never run profitably over the long run from here on unless they can push down hourly wages. That in turn is blocked by the unions. They are shoveling their own grave those idiots. Why does an unskilled car worker deserve 50-70/ hour (including benefits)? Give me a break!!! China is thanking those every day who believe such workers are worth such buck. This country is on the brink of a collabse because everyone things they deserve, deserve, deserve. I argue a plumber does not deserve 100k, nor does a doctor deserve 500k-1mln. I strongly believe that the overall competitiveness of the US will continue to decline unless overall wage levels will be lowered (I am not talking about guys who work minimum wages).
I agree that unions aren't necessary in manufacturing and most service jobs. However, they are necessary when it comes to construction because of the call/dispatch system. There are too many smaller contractors and the workers are laid off and then hired back on. The advantage of a union when it comes to building trades is that a local union on the other side of the country can put a call out for skilled labor and hire a traveling journeyman on quickly. Non-union contractors can't do this. They also have no way of knowing if a particular worker is as skilled as they claim to be. Plus, they have to pay for employee medical benefits at a premium. As far as GM/Ford goes, their mismanagement was just as much to blame. They have just as much white collar dead weight as unskilled workers. Unions may be antiquated, but so is white collar pride. There are too many mommies and daddies pressuring their dumbass kids into going to college for a useless degree. They finally finish college and can't get a job, but they don't want to lift a finger either. It's a brave new world.
This thread should've stopped after the first page but the pikers had to sound off. Now introducing a new field, the HVAC. Median salary : 38,815 Just as bad as the plumber. Just for some perspective of what a simple bachelor's degree can fetch: 17-20k a year more over time probably does make a significant difference in one's life. But hey, some people are just too dumb to go to school.
make no mistake about it...definitely not in blue collar!!! While I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT evaluate and judge a person based on education and income I believe that even more blue collar will be outsourced than already done. You are right, times have changed. But not because of the current crisis but because of globalization. The U.S. was the front-runner and asked for it....so what are people complaining about? Fact is the U.S. will not have a future if people think they must have car factories, airplane factories, steel factories....The world has changed for good. Countries that have a competitive advantage in manufacturing goods, such as China, will do what they do best. The U.S. and also Japan and Germany need to fully focus on a new industry that has a competitive advantage in the US/Germany/Japan, which is IDEA GENERATION, RESEARCH, and INFORMATION. That is where our future lies, not in steel, pipes, cars, and air planes. Hundreds of thousand of jobs will hinge on those new industries. It does not mean that our neighborhood plumber will become obsolete but it means he/she wont be shaping our future and therefore should remain to be salaried as he currently is. Lets face the simple truth, we enjoy high tech alloys and other materials used in cars, appliances not because some carpenter had a great idea but because of ideas that were born and sweated out of research labs!!!
no disputing the value over time on paper of the educated professional,just think your a fucking complete douche for lumping people into groups,you seem to have an ego problem that needs to find people to be superior to,a fucking snob,to make your own bullshit beleivable,this is the same fiber of humanity that is dividing this country right now ,that seems to think greed doesnt affect the rich,therefore its not wrong,slowly grinding the american morals and ethics that made this country into turd dust,next time your car needs breaks,call your banker
Yes I made less then 40k my first 2 years in the trade, but I got paid. What did your first 2 years of college cost? Take this out of the equation my little mathematician- apprentices getting paid 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90% of journeyman's wages during their first 5 years, and employees who are unskilled or low skilled, (it's about 4-1 and we go through them like hotcakes). When the plumber shows up with 4 guys, you think your getting 4 plumbers? No your getting 1 plumber, maybe 1 apprentices, and 2 laborers who will never turn out. I know many HVAC service techs making over 100k, you just have to be talented and work some overtime. Not to mention 40k is good money in many small communities. Many occupations require you must live in a big city where more pay does not necessarily equal a better quality of life. The numbers your using are crap, everybody in the field at a mechanical contractor lumped in together, it's like putting the receptionist in with the accountants cause they both work in a firms office.