I love how you attack my competence right off the bat so the less intelligent people (and the cowards) will rush to your side so they dont get thier intellect attacked because they can not defend their position, but you messed with the wrong Christian this time buddy! So lets get started. So are you absolutely certain that there is no absolute certainty? Lets look at bigfoot, wizards or witches. Well a witch is nothing more than a person that is of the wiccan religion. So right there you were wrong that they dont exist. A wizard is nothing more than what we call a magician today. The reason the bible was against wizardry & magic was because of the deception involved with it. Making people think they had powers when really all they had were tricks up their sleeves. Bigfoot is probably the misidentification of a bear, but of course, I can not say absolutely certain if this is true since indigenous people claimed stories of "wildmen" that used to run around the Pacific northwest. Perhaps these wildmen were nothing more that people like Ishi, the last yana indian who was found in northern CA back in the early 1900s. They say Ishi had unusually large feet. The storys of wildmen could've grown into a bigfoot story by 1958. So lets see...you were wrong about wizards, and witches and bigfoot (because you didnt understand what they were or where the storys came from) isnt it possible you are wrong about God because you dont understand God or where he came from? You say you want verifiable evidence....there is no verifiable evidence of the big bang, but i bet you believe that! Now the question is...do you really put your trust in verifiable evidence or what other people tell you is verifiable evidence. Your scientists were saying for 1000s of years that the earth was flat. The bible told us the earth was round 1000s of years before science "discovered" it. God said (in the book of Job i believe) that the world is made up of things that can not be seen with the naked eye. What was it...nearly the 1900s when scientists figured out this was true. How many times must science be wrong before you believe? If you see a house, you know there was a builder. If you see a painting, you know there was a painter, but when you see the earth and all the creations of the earth, you dont think there is a creator? You think it just "popped" into existance over time? (its really funny how "time" is your "magic ingredient" which makes all things possible) Let me ask you this one too. Imagine that you had never tasted an orange before. And lets say 95% of the world tried to explain to you that they had tasted an orange and how sweet it was. Now lets say 5% of the world told you oranges have no taste and they gave you all sorts of data saying why they THINK an orange has no taste, but they really cant prove it to you 100%. Who would you believe? Thats the same way with God. 95% of the world believes in God. You are of the 5% that believes there is no God. You eat the fruits of the atheists which are poison and leads to the destruction of your soul. Just admit the truth for once in your life. Admit that the reason you dont want to believe in God is because God cramps your style. You know you cant go out and sin freely if you know there is an absolute judge watching your every move. Getting drunk, smoking pot, sleeping with prostitutes, cheating on your girlfriend/wife(assuming you are a man and also not homosexual)cheating on your taxes, ect....that all has to stop if you admit the truth of Gods existence. So admit thats the reason you dont want to believe in God because you love your sin too much. There can be no other reason that believers irk you so much other than this.
It is always amusing to hear theists proclaim that they dont believe the earth has natural causes because it sounds too complicated yet they will readily believe that some grey haired old deity in the sky just spoke and everything we see today popped up from nothing.
sorry to blow up what you have been told about non believers. even though the evidence has convinced me the story is nothing more than primitive superstition i have no great sins in my life other than blasphemy i guess. i dont drink, dont smoke, dont chase women,dont cheat on my taxes. i actually live a kind of low key life. the reason people like me go from believer to non believer is because we took the time to study the evidence and found it false. how about you? why do you believe? even theists admit there is no evidence and that if you believe it is because of blind faith. do you even understand the concept of verifiable evidence?
Again...false belief of who God is, just like you didnt know that witches exist in the wiccan religion or wizards are actually magicians like david copperfield. Just because you saw da Vinci's painting of God on a cloud doesnt mean thats how he is. You really do not have any kind of understanding of God or of Christianity and you would never dare look at the evidence of creation with an unbiased mind because of what you fear you would find. You would believe that nothing came from something even though that goes against EVERYTHING natural science believes in. You will believe in evolution even though the LAW of thermodynamics (entropy)absolutely DESTROYS all possibility of the THEORY of evolution. Why do you ignore certain aspects of your own science?
but your imaginary god is able to make something from nothing? how? by magic? you really should at least try to become better informed. there is no excuse. the information is readily available. if you tell me you want to believe even though there is no evidence i can accept that you have a need to believe but dont try to argue the evidence with me. do you think you can come up with something that non believer havent already studied and discounted as false: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html creationists have long argued that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics and thus is impossible. The following FAQs address why that is not true. Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution: Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics A short and to-the-point answer to this creationist claim. An Index to Creationist Claims: 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and Information Theory Brief replies to various thermodynamics claims by antievolutionists. The Second Law of Thermodynamics, Evolution, and Probability Does evolution violate the second law of thermodynamics? Creationists say yes. This article describes in detail why the creationists are wrong. Attributing False Attributes to Thermodynamics Creationists have created a 'voodoo' thermodynamics based solely on metaphors in order to convince those not familiar with real thermodynamics that their sectarian religious views have scientific validity. Entropy, Disorder and Life Can the mathematically quantifiable concept of entropy be equated to the common-sense notion of "disorder" in any meaningful way? John Pieper answers this question, incorporating Boltzmann's entropy equation and the field of science called statistical mechanics, concluding that the only way "disorder" is defined in a thermodynamic sense is no help to creationists' arguments against evolution.
Blasphemy is more than a major sin. It's worse than murder, rape and theft. It doesnt seem so serious to you because you've heard and seen so many people do it all the time. People on TV, probably most of your friends and relatives too. You might say No...its not worse than those because thats what you've been led to believe. Although if you were a member of the interhamwe(the group responsible for the gencide in rwanda) then rape and murder would be nothing to you, the same way blasphemy doesnt mean anything to you. You want to know why I believe? I can tell you why. My conscience(comes from two latin words "con" and "science" which means "with knowledge") But really my story starts with an Iraqi Christian I met in Europe. He told me things that i wanted to ignore just like you. My conscience ate at me to find out if the bible was real. I knew that I had better make sure that it was real because there is nothing more important than whats going to happen after you die. But part of me always put it off because i was afraid. Afraid i would end up like one of those people that always want to talk to you about Jesus. I did NOT want to be one of those people. But one day I was confronted with the law of Moses. I found out that if the bible is true, I am going to hell. No doubt about it...if its real...thats where I am going. I had better get some good unbiased information about if its real. What i found was alot of useless info. People that believed in God, but really had no information on anything that could help me believe and the same with evolutionists, although they loved to point to other items to help them along the way. Like radiocarbon dating to "prove" evolution is real, but 99% of them had no idea how radiocarbon dating worked. Anyway...i could probably go on and on, but let me cut right down to it. I found that science does not offer any proof that cant be refuted. I am ALWAYS willing to learn how science works even if its very complex. I am also always willing to listen to atheists to see if they have a good arguement. Even willing to let them try to use my bible against me to see if they can find some flaw that cant be explained. After years of studying this, my bible has never let me down. Sure when i was first starting out, the atheists used to throw a few by me all the time, but im at a point now where there is no flaw in the bible. Every flaw they think they can find is always taken out of context or can be explained by simply going to the hebrew version of the bible to find the real meaning of what the bible meant in some situations. So thats basically it. Science has let me down many times. My bible has never. I ended up becoming one of those "Jesus" people so he could save my soul from the very place I fear you are going (even though you are low key, it only takes 1 sin to end up in hell) You may not think its fair, but look at it like this...If you lie to a child what happens to you? nothing. If you lie to your girlfriend what happens? She breaks up with you. If you lie to your boss...what happens? you get fired. If you lie to the government...what happens? you go to jail. Do you see how its different degrees of punishment for the same crime? So now imagine, you are standing in front of the great judge of the world and he knows you've lied and slandered his name. How bad do you think its going to be to do that to such a holy God? Thats why you & I both deserve hell. But if you have a Savior, you get a get out of jail free card and let me tell you...thats a precious gift to have. But All I'm asking is that you go out and stop your bias for one minute. Look at some science that butts horns with the bible. Then try to find evidence that proves your science wrong for once instead of the other way around. Dont just assume that because some scientist wrote it that its true. Most people hear that science said something and that its just true...no questions asked. If you are a true truth seeker, you shouldnt have any problem with this. If you just want to be ignorant though and assume you already know everything...well...good luck to you.
Good science is actually hard to find. Once one realizes that a student can take an argument that would get him an F in philosophy 101 down the hall to the Anthropology or Geology department and get an A with it... it's sort of over for most of the junk science, and most of it is junk, highly politicized junk at that.... after one then examines the underpinnings of all this junky science and discovers that we really don't know a lot of stuff that science claims as factual... then one is free to think and do his own conclusion finding.. then it starts to be more enjoyable... but so many would rather kick their stall and argue, they bore me to tears usually... that's why I don't argue that much in these threads, if somebody loves being willfully ignorant then arguing is silly...
I only read this one, just to see if i would see what I thought i would see and i saw it...see? Basically when the article was trying to refute creationist, it used the world probability quite often....high degree of probability, low degree, ect. I can use probability to show that George Bush is immortal too! Watch! I have observed George Bush everyday for over the last 10 years approximately 23,000 times. Each time I observed him, he didnt die. Therefore i can say with a very HIGH degree of probability that george bush is immortal and will never die. Do you see how probability can get twisted, now? I use this example for everyone to understand better because its far fetched...but if i talk about something that the general public is not so familiar with, a point like this could really be dead wrong and people would believe it.
I believe because I thought about what Jesus(not his real name), said about the Pharisees and moved it to modern day. As a consequence, I rejected religion, sought God, Allah, Yahweh, Amen, Bhudda,Quetzalcoatl,Inti, or whomever u want to call ur animating force, and experienced some interesting things. Paranormal is a misnomer, most people are operating at a subnormal state of existence. I personally have evidence that suggests the route of getting to the source is irrelevant, and likely to b controlled by whatever city state u happen to live in. Reject whether the methods r right or wrong and go straight to the source the best way u know how. The source is amoral, which is why bad things happen to good people, and vice versa. It only serves to promote ur will. The trick tho, is that if u harm another in this process, u might have what politicians call unintended consequences. And ur personal will is subject to limitations based on the universe you percieve urself to live in mentally, and the physical laws of vibration, so don't think ur lighter than air, or that u can physically stop a train. Of course u r going to flame me, which is okay. All of this is just one man's opinion, based on personal experiences that a math and science guy could not falsify, nor explain. As far as evolution or the origin of the universe is concerned, I will believe the very first nation whose scientist's can: 1.build a 1/10 scale version of the pyramid of cheops using the methods of their choice that meets the specs and native materials of the original. No theories, just build the replica and shut us all up. With today's technology even. I would b happy with that. 2. Tell us without any doubt what is under the ice in Antarctica. I have lived long enough to c science get much more wrong than right over time. So I would like just a small return demonstration of the competency of these scientists. That's all.
Very good point about the Science. People should be free to think and do their own conclusion finding, but they dont. Arguing with this guy is silly if it was just him and me. But I write hoping that maybe I can free someone else's mind who is reading this. Maybe someone who also who has blindly followed science without question. Evolution was a hard concept for me to free my mind from. Its so ingrained in our society that one has alot of trouble trying to refute it at first. You get past that, it gets a whole lot easier though.