Are you profitable? So take this challenge...

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Xtrader59, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. If I were consistently profitable, I would gladly take this challenge. Here are the terms:

    You trade my account (up to 100K, you may choose the initial balance)
    You earn % on generated profits (we may negotiate this) paid on a monthly basis
    You guarantee my initial capital

    The terms of the guarantee are this:

    You deposit funds 100% the amount you will trade and guarantee with a reliable (to both) third party financial institution or broker
    This deposit will be hold blocked under certain conditions

    The conditions are:

    You may trade this account but you cannot withdraw funds for a limited time
    There is a % drawdown that I must tolerate (and a minimum time) before I acquire the right to close the contract
    If I decide to close the contract, I show the third party a complete account statement and they transfer the necessary funds to my account to turn it back to initial value
    As a compensation for this increased risk, you earn an additional % on profits during the period of the guarantee
    If you get to double my account I have the right to withdraw initial capital and this releases the guarantee
    Once the garantee is released we may freely recontract another round or I may prefer to take the risk myself (based obviously on your performance)

    I think these terms are fair. Unfortunately, I believe there is no way to bring this to reality (is there such a blocked deposit maintained in financial intitutions or brokers ruled by the terms of a particular contract?)

    As I said I would take this contract (in fact I would propose it) if I were profitable. But after 10 years in the market I found nothing that really works
    I don't know if there are legal obstacles for this too
     
  2. open

    open

    hahah LOL:D :D

    friend I like you, unlike most, you are thinking and thinking hard

    unfortunately there is something you don't know and you really should know

    even if you could ready all the legal mumbo jumbo, what you propose would only attract gamblers who "think" they know how to trade

    you see real traders like me who make decent money find your proposal funny :D
     
  3. TheDamo

    TheDamo

    Hi Xtrader,

    There is technically nothing wrong with your proposal - it makes reasonable sense from a business point of view.

    The thing is, speaking for myself, why would I (or any profitable trader) want the extra work, pressure and responsibilty of trading your funds in addition to looking after my own account?

    I'm not trying to put you off your idea, which I happen to think is technically sound, I just think that most professional traders would see your business proposal as extra hassle that they don't need.

    I can't speak for everyone of course - that's just what I think the response you receive will mainly be.


    Thanks

    Damian
    Professional U.S. Share Trader
     
  4. u21c3f6

    u21c3f6

    "what you propose would only attract gamblers who "think" they know how to trade"

    I think the above says it the best.

    The interesting thing about this is, even if you could get a profitable trader to take you up on your challenge, it really does change the dynamics.

    Trading with someone else's money is not the same dynamic as trading with your own money. In the past when I attempted to trade someone else's money, I found myself being too conservative and/or overly concerned with not losing any of their money. So much so that I could not trade the way that I do with my own money and the results showed it.

    Of one venture that was highly profitable (everyone understood that they were supplying "risk" capital with no guarantee of return), the amount of time, effort and angst was not worth the "extra" I received. I would have been and am better off trading on my own with my own money.

    Joe.
     
  5. What you propose is an investment scheme that holds no downside risk for you - only to the trader.

    This is a joke.

    You want all the reward but unwilling to risk a penny.

    Keep dreaming.

    :p
     
  6. So I experience 100% of the postential loss, but only get a split % of upside? That's not very attractive. It sounds as though you are trying to learn from a successful trader, as you reserve the right to make the call and yank the plug on certain trades.

    IF you did find somebody to join you in this proposal, it's easy enough to set up. Just have an account in your name with limited power of attorney to the trader. He can trade, but only you can withdraw funds. As far as the "blocked account", a simple legal agreement with proof of funds would have to suffice.

    In summary, many prop firms pay out 90%+ AND assume losses of the money they put up for relatively new traders. This will make it difficult for you to be competitive in findind a pro. We trade our own money, for friends, and family. The BEST place to start is to ask yourself what you are truly trying to accomplish. If you want to "watch" and learn along the way from a pro, that is one thing. If you just want to go to the beach, while invested, there a many competent money managers.
     
  7. In reality, a consistently profitable trader will not trade your account unless the profits from your account exceeds the profits from trading his/her own account.

    However, you may get lucky in finding someone that just became profitable because these traders haven't been profitable long enough to build up their account.

    For example, someone that's been consistently profitable for a few years would not bite on your offer because they would be making more money trading their own account.

    In contrast, someone that's been profitable for a few months while still growning their account in its early stages...

    They may be interested in your offer especially if the profit potential trading your account exceeds the realized profit they are currently getting trading their own account.

    Simply, you are really asking for an inexperienced profitable trader to trade your account.

    You may be better off to just pay the trader to mentor you in person to show you how he/she is doing it.

    Why???

    * You obviously can easily afford a mentor.

    * You already checked/verified his/her profitability to be thinking about letting the trader trade your account.

    Thus, in reality, you know that there's a method out there being used profitably.

    If you go the mentor route instead of going with the inexperience profitable trader route...

    Read the below link to prevent all the well known problems traders run into when they are mentored and/or to prevent being scammed.

    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32793&perpage=1&pagenumber=7

    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66973&perpage=1&pagenumber=3

    The critical advice from the above links is this...

    Don't make the mistake of getting involved with someone that only post their trades online in realtime as proof of profitability.

    Instead, find someone that lets you see them trade with your own two eyes in realtime as in person.

    At the minimum, actual broker profit/loss statements (not info copied to a spreadsheet) should be given to you as verification regardless if they are for realtime online trades that was posted, mentoring or allowing someone to trade your account.

    Thus, if you do it right, it will be extremely difficult to find someone to help you because there's no real benefit for them unless you have something they badly need.

    If you do it wrong, you'll find many offers.

    Mark
     
  8. trendo

    trendo

    This proposal reminds me of an old joke about the legal system. If you were on trial, would you really want to be judged by a bunch of people who were too stupid to get out of jury duty?

    What benefit is there to the trader?
     
  9. GTS

    GTS

    Actually if you read the proposal you will see that he does want to split the gains so your statement about "all the reward" is false.

    However the critical point is that the trader must put up funds in escrow equal to the amount he will be trading and he is responsible for all losses.

    That being the case, Xtrader59 how is your proposal better then that same trader taking the money in escrow and instead trading it directly for himself, thereby keeping 100% of the profits and not just a portion of it? The trader's risk is the same in both cases since he must make you whole in case of loss.
     

  10. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Colloquial
     
    #10     Dec 5, 2007