Are trades in an IRA reported? (EVER?)

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Toonces, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. alanm


    IB does not actually allow margin borrowing in their "margin IRA".

    Again, does anyone know of a brokerage that does actually grant margin (i.e. loaning you money against a stock position) in an IRA?
    #21     Aug 16, 2006
  2. Genesis Securities, if I remember correctly.
    #22     Aug 16, 2006
  3. GTS


    Doesn't IB's definition of margin trading permissions that I posted earlier contradict your statement that trades must settle in an IRA account?

    I've only had the IB IRA account open one week so I have not had the chance to test the theory yet.
    #23     Aug 17, 2006
  4. The Dealio - An IRA must have a custodian that is a bank. No custodian on gods green earth wants to take the risk of allowing margin on an IRA. So...what to do? Roll your IRA's into a self directed profit sharing, etc. You can even do a profit sharing 401K combo. So , say you knock out 50K. You can pay yourself a 40K salary and tax defer 15K of that into your 401k and then match 25% of your 40K with your profit sharing which is another 10K. So out of 50K you dont pay taxes on 25K. Pretty nifty huh? Here is the good are the trustee and beneficiary of this plan and hence no broker gives a rat's ass what you do in it since it in not a liability to them since they are not the custodian. Here is the bad part, you are the trustee (instead of the custodian) and hence you are responsible for maintaining the plan. So you need to work with a law firm to form and maintain this plan which is maybe 3K upfront and only a K a year or so to maintain it (find a firm with a strong ERISA practice). Also, the minute you start borrowing you end up causing UBTI (Unrelated Business Taxable Income) which is difficult to calculate correctly and basically requires the use of a very sophisticated accounting firm (out of the realm of many of the smaller firms). Also, if you have enough to get in with a big bulge bracket broker they all have offshore leveraged products which basically allow US entities to leverage without incurring UBTI and also circumvent reg T.

    good luck!
    #24     Aug 17, 2006
  5. I have an IRA at IB and there's some confusion on thier site.

    On this page it says:

    "IRA accounts can only have cash trading permissions."

    But in the account itself I have Margin selected. I haven't traded in that accoun tfor some time, so I can't say first hand what the story is.

    Statements from the account tag it as a CASH account. Very confusing, aint it?
    #25     Aug 18, 2006
  6. tl408


    Well.....can someone with IB "margin" IRA account please confirm if you would have to wait 3 days for settlement period or not? My IRA is currently with TDAmerirade, and they do have this 3-day wait for settlement before the next trade can be placed.

    Thank you!
    #26     Dec 4, 2006
  7. JackR


    Her is an extract from the IB site. I think it makes things pretty clear. I've added some bolding inside the quote.
    Hope that helps.

    #27     Dec 4, 2006
  8. sprstpd


    This has been an unanswered question on EliteTrader as long as I have been a member. Some people have claimed that high frequency trading in an IRA will eventually be flagged by the IRS and will be treated as UBTI - Unrelated Business Taxable Income. Other people have said that the IRA is the ultimate trading vehicle and that until there is a court case pertaining to this issue, it can be assumed that hyper-trading in an IRA is fine. My question is, who the hell is right? Show me some evidence.

    I also know that if the IRS were to declare hyper-trading taxable in an IRA, that a lot of people would be screwed over not only in late taxes but interest on that tax.

    Does someone have definitive proof on either side of the issue?
    #28     Dec 4, 2006
  9. From what I remember -

    The 'loan' only works to get around the 3 day waiting period. So you can go ahead and rotate your cash around as you please, but you just can't exceed your cash value at any time...

    But, I'm hung over today so don't take my word on it :D
    #29     Dec 4, 2006
  10. Is IB the only broker in town that allows you to trade IRA on margin?
    #30     Dec 5, 2006