It would be a completely unexceptionable statement, if only you said "I think" or "It seems to me that" rather than this so-emphatic "Facts are". Sorry to sound critical (if I do), but it's actually your opinion that you're offering, surely? And unless you know every single person in the upper echelons of the business, then it's bound to come across as a rather sweeping generalisation, isn't it? I'm perfectly happy and willing to respect it as your opinion; but when you present it as "factual", even emphasising that by starting your contribution with the words "Facts are", it becomes so much more difficult. You can see that, really, I'm sure?
Identify one discretionary trader in the upper eschelon of the business. I can't --- so up until now, its a fact-- but i am open to be proven wrong. Thanks, surf
No lists of upper eschelon of business, discretionary or otherwise data available either way, doesn't prove that your right, merely there is no way to prove it either way and your the 1 claiming it's a FACT!! I want evidence from you, that every 1 of them isn't discretionary.
Are the majority of great traders systemetic or discretionary?" in my humble personal opinion...it's definitely Discretionary. I know it may sound cliche or repetitive...but Great Trading...is part science, part art. -- it's a skill, a craft, an intuition. You have to have an almost sixth sense...to know or sense the future...filter out the noise and see the greater picture. more or less, aiming to capture the top and bottom. the movie Trading Places 1983 is a somewhat good example...it briefly talks about trading wisdoms. with systematic trading, (or i prefer to call it...close-minded trading)...you automatically limit or cap or restrict yourself. The market is one big monstrous moody bitch -- and you have to be its ...soulmate...to understand it. -- ...you have to understand its...PriveDrivers on a daily basis that constantly change and a whole plethora of other variables that make it tick the way it ticks` ...and even then, if you're able to get out alive/be profitable...consider yourself somewhat lucky, -- luck plays a big part...more than some are willing to admit.
Sure there is. I can name dozens of leading traders who are systematic. Yet not one discretionary. surf
This goes against the theme of my original question in that the traders not be well known but to give examples that will make the point that both exist I have to use known names. Successful, bad ass traders from Schwager's Market Wizards book ... Systematic: Ed Seykota, William Eckhardt Discretionary: Marty Schwartz, Jim Rogers My question was regarding the trading style of the outstanding traders (systematic, discretionary) that each of us has personally known.
These threads often take the aspect of a room full of stoned theologians arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
I'm not sure which particular trading competition you're talking about because there's lots of them in reference to real money competitions and simulated competitions. Real money competitions usually have a duration like 1week or 1month. In contrast, simulated competitions tend to last longer with duration like 1 month, quarter or year. I've seen the results of real money competitions in the past few years where traders won by profiting 100k to 1million dollars. Yet, I don't know if they are discretionary or system traders but they are traders that trade their own private capital. I've also seen the results of simulated competitions that show results of discretionary trading teams, system (automated) trading teams in different types of market assets. Some categories the discretionary trading team won and in other assets the system (automated) trading team won. Note: Those simulated competitions did not involve individual trader competition. In contrast, it was a team competition. My point is that I don't think trading competitions is an adequate representation of what the OP of this thread is talking about. I could be wrong but I was under the impression the OP is talking about traders that are consistently profitable of at least a few years for the past few years because its already well known whom were famous traders in market conditions of the past (e.g. Paul Rotter). Once again, its impossible to know which group (system traders or discretionary traders) are the most profitable in today's market conditions. unless someone has access hundreds of thousands of trading records on this planet. Anyways, I gave the anonymous name of the CIS trader (a discretionary trader) but only because that guy has some close system trading pals that he said did poorly during that infamous profit run he had. That's just one example but it doesn't represent what's going on every where else in the world because as I stated...we can easily name 1 or 2 profitable traders that are system traders or discretionary traders but we can not without a doubt determine overall which group outperforms the other unless someone thinks simulated trading conditions is a good way to do it. If that's ok with folks...simulated competitions I've seen its about even between system traders versus discretionary traders. P.S. Barclay's top trader is not a systematic trader. Yet, he has a team. I think he got something like 12% to 15% as a bonus for each 25 million he made. He make like 170 million euro dollars if that's of any value to anyone. Yet, I don't think institutional traders that are not automated are part of this discussion because they have access to resources that the typical retail trader does not have access to. I also don't know how his performance compares to the performances of Barclay's algorithms. There's other top institutional traders that are not systematic but as stated above...I don't know how their performance compares to the firms algorithm systems or automated systems and these top pros usually don't work alone (they work in a team with them being the head trader of that team) and they have access to resources us typical retail trader do not have access to. Note: I use the term head trader but that's not accurate. There's another title given to them but I can't remember what it was.