Are tales of China's recovery mostly hot air?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by makloda, May 16, 2009.

  1. In terms of economics and businesses, China is not now, in any way, shape or form, Communistic.

    In fact, China is probably more capitalistic than the United States at the current time.

    China is CINO ('Communist in Name Only'). This has been true for some time, and is the reason China and the former Soviet Union never saw eye to eye or formed an alliance or any pact; in many ways, they were enemies, which divergent interests.

    China is a totalitarian state that keep tight wraps on individuals and its political apparatus, and maintains absolute control over the amount of liberties and social 'privileges' it allows its population, but when it comes to business, they are modeled after post-WWII Japan, where the government engages in central planning, but once it plants companies in particular zones and regions, it bends over backwards to do anything and everything to help those businesses grow, profit and thrive, even if it means incredibly high subsidies, especially for those companies engaged in the production of those things the government has earmarked as critical technologies and growth areas in future economic patterns.

    They also court foreign corporations like mad, whom they have desire to obtain technology from, such as Intel, Boeing, Honeywell, General Electric, etc., so that they can transfer it eventually to Chinese-based firms.

    This is a weakness of the American Business Model. We pressure our corporations to produce short term profits, so as to positively affect their share prices, and we look at things in the context of the short term (think quarters), so much so that we actually encourage some of the companies that have critical, leading edge technologies, R&D and products to actually set up shop in places like China, where the knowledge, plans, designs and R&D they've obtained over decades of investment can be 'lifted' by foreign competitors in short order.

    We thinks of the next quarter or next year, and other nations, such as South Korea and China think of the decade and century.
     
    #21     May 16, 2009
  2. Mav88

    Mav88

    If China is supposed to save us, then I wonder what has become of all the Obama posturing against China?
     
    #22     May 16, 2009
  3. China's political system is communistic. Its justice system is laughable and corrupt. If China thought about the "next century" it would not have harmed its own environment to the extent it did.

    People are hung up on superficial comparisons between post war japan and current china. For post war japan a tremendous amount of luck as well as emphasis on total quality management/just in time production that propelled them to the top.

    If you take success of toyota/honda it is based in large part to the laziness and degeneracy of CEOs of american automobile companies who thought only about how to sell more cars while ignoring reliability and/or fuel economy.

    No such openings exist for chinese car makers to make their inroads. People understand the need to focus on quality/just in time manufacturing/fuel economy/etc. those are not news to anyone.

    To summarize: arrogant behavior of certain american corporations during post war period created once in a lifetime opportunities for japanese manufacturers to make inroads. Those opportunities don't exist for chinese.
     
    #23     May 16, 2009
  4. You are very much mistaken about this.

    BYD Automotive is a company in China that started out as a battery producer. Now, they are genuinely one of the leading-edge electric car companies in all of the world. Just because you may not have heard of them - yet - doesn't mean this isn't the case.

    BYD has acclaimed technology which trumps anything any automaker or battery maker in Japan, Korea or the U.S. has been able to develop. They have working mule cars right now that travel in excess of 400 miles on a single charge, are 100% electric and that can be charged in 8 minutes.

    This is the company that Warren Buffet purchase a large stake in, although not many people understand exactly how advanced BYD is.

    They also have plug-in hybrids that can achieve in excess of 150 mpg.

    Again, these are mule cars, which are intended to demonstrate that the technology works - they are not concepts, or mock ups, but working vehicles that are in the last stage of development and testing just prior to mass production.
     
    #24     May 16, 2009
  5. Ever heard of Tesla motors? Epic fail. Essentially vaporware.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto read and weep 60 miles. 400 miles on a single charge they would crush the world but 60 miles is essentially useless. Chevy volt has similar delusions. You don't know anything about BYD's safety equipment, or the power of its motor, etc.
     
    #25     May 16, 2009

  6. Yes, Chinese cannot afford the stuff they produce, so they save the money, the saving rate in China is 50%.
     
    #26     May 16, 2009
  7. Both South Korea and Taiwan were under military dictatorships when they industrialized in the 1970's and 1980's. The democracy in South Korea and Taiwan you saw now is a result of the industrialization and not the cause of it.
     
    #27     May 16, 2009
  8. They are still working on meeting U.S. safety standards on their electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles, and they're very open in public statement regularly released about where they stand.

    As far as their all electric vehicle, a BBC reporter went to their 17.5 mile test track, and confirmed driving their latest all electric vehicle for 378 miles - not at all one time - but while interviewing the company CEO, taking time to tour their facility where all their workers live on campus, etc. The stopping and starting of the car, and letting it sit is why it apparently didn't make the 400 mile mark, as the test drive wasn't continuous.

    By the way, they currently sell conventional engine vehicles in China, including a car that is the 10th best seller in China currently and their reputation for quality and reliability in China is on par with VW, which is the best selling make in China.
     
    #28     May 16, 2009
  9. You don't get it do you. If there was an automaker ANYWHERE in the world that was alleged to have been close to mass production of a car that could go 400 miles on one charge and fill up in 8 minutes there would be mass suicides in toyota/honda, etc. We don't see that do we. This would be all over the news. My guess it is the same as tesla motors vaporware.

    In reply to the previous poster. Yes South Korea and Taiwan were not exactly free and democratic during the cold war. But that was during the cold war. You could be a (largely) benevolent dictator and a patriot and have a plan, realizing that "too much" freedom during the cold war could mean your country is irretrievably "lost" (see N. Korea) What was acceptable in 1960 is not acceptable in 2009. Plus there was a significant difference in strategy. Korea and Japan pursued an export strategy in a few key industries that they nurtured and emphasized. Their "opening" was the cold war and arrogance/incompetence of CEOs in certain industries. This opening DOES NOT exist now and "China's miracle" is due to simply china letting its population working in sweatshops.

    In order to succeed Chinese automakers have to climb over Japanese/Koreans first. In cell phones it is even worse, etc., etc.
     
    #29     May 16, 2009
  10. so true. All what you said is 100% correct.


    I always wonder if the people who think China (or even vietnam) is communistic have ever been in these countries. We tend to think that our democracy (or what is left of it) is the best of all forms but I am not sure this applies to all nations. I think our democray model applied to china would put china into a destaster within a short time frame.
    Democray is a bright weather form and might not work always.
     
    #30     May 17, 2009