are options really ZERO SUM GAME ? i don't think so

Discussion in 'Options' started by chanakya, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. chanakya

    chanakya

    yes john is gay and is desperate...so he got some utility for his options from carl ( on top of $5) :)
    BTW, stocks are also zero sum game ...its just that the expiry is too long ( till company dissappears 100 years later)
     
    #21     Sep 10, 2009
  2. I don't understand options. I read books and I still don't get it. The call, put and all that terminology is confusing to me.
     
    #22     Sep 10, 2009
  3. spindr0

    spindr0

    In Bizarro World, stocks are a zero sum game and options aren't.
     
    #23     Sep 10, 2009
  4. spindr0

    spindr0

    Well, you can either keep reading until it makes sense or you can take up bridge :)
     
    #24     Sep 10, 2009
  5. chanakya

    chanakya

    In my world,

    either both stocks and stock options are Zero sum games or both are not.
     
    #25     Sep 10, 2009
  6. MTE

    MTE

    This line of thinking is completely wrong. Companies sell stock at IPO to raise capital for investment in their businesses. With those investments they create value. If they don't sell stock then they cannot raise capital and thus cannot invest in their businesses. Any future gain in their stock is not a loss to the company!

    Companies can create and destroy value. Derivatives only transfer it from one party to the other.
     
    #26     Sep 10, 2009
  7. If you look at the stock market on a day-to-day basis, it may actually kind of look like a zero-sum game but it's actually not.

    Think of it this way, if company xyz is valued at $10 million at IPO and let us say a few decades pass and the company now has a market cap of $100 million. That's actually how much the company is worth, what's more is that you can actually buy the xyz company for $100 million dollars and not lose money - even though it was once worth $10 million.
     
    #27     Sep 10, 2009
  8. spindr0

    spindr0

    HUH? If the company goes public and raises $10 million from its offering, who lost money on that transaction? If the stock rises $5, everyone owning shares made money. Where's the zero sum in that?

    Don't confuse investing and creating wealth with gambling's zero-sum game.
     
    #28     Sep 10, 2009
  9. chanakya

    chanakya

    Exactly right !

    The call option writer is passing on part of the $$ to the option buyer.

    lets assume the company has an IPO of $10
    john bought the $10 and immediately wrote $1 call which carl bought. now john has invested $9 on the company and carl is ivested $1 in the same company...the option transaction has just passed part of the investment from one party to other.
    in normal transaction, the entire stock gets transferred where as here portion of the investment gets transferred as two diffferent players have taken up different parts of investements ( based in risk. John has taken the intrinsic value and the carl the speculative.
    If john had sold the $10 stock ( instead of option) to carl, then carl would have been 100% invested in the company having both the instrinsic and speculative part.
     
    #29     Sep 10, 2009
  10. white17

    white17


    If John is gay, he is probably long a spread, possibly long a strangle but certainly long a straddle. If the market moves against him he may gag on these positions since he's bitten off more than he can chew.
     
    #30     Sep 10, 2009