Are options a waste of time and money? (pun intended)

Discussion in 'Trading' started by wxytrader, Jul 22, 2023.

  1. All you need are trades with these characteristics:
    1) pWin >= 0.5 (the more the better; of course this can theoretically go up to 1.0)
    2) reward >= risk
    The art is to determine these factors for "the most probable area" on the scale
    (ie. the area around the initial underlying spot on the x-axis) --> expectancy.
    IMO a good choice is taking the abs pct dist of -1SD (or upto -2SD) also for the other side (this is very unintuitive/unusual).

    Of course also important:
    3) know that at expiration, IV and volume are irrelevant... :)
    4) risking only 1% to max 5% of AUM per such trade (ie. need to have about 20 to 100 such trades at the same time for being fully invested).
    5) use spreads or spread-like constructs (ie. where loss is capped); if early assigned, just let it be, don't fight it with stops etc :)

    ...based on research/study/sims, not yet real-world tested.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
    #121     Jul 23, 2023
  2. themickey

    themickey

    No. RSI is a very deceptive indicator, it has no edge, most likely taking you out of a trade just as the position begins a big run.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
    #122     Jul 23, 2023
  3. Sergio123

    Sergio123

    They are still just buying and selling shares, calls, and puts. That's all that there is.

    The additional terminology is just marketing to sell additional products to people who don't need them.

    All that you need is good understanding of option pricing models and probability distributions.
     
    #123     Jul 23, 2023
    Axon and earth_imperator like this.
  4. Is this a joke? The probability of a profit indicator is useless, as is rsi lol, no one uses them. You’re still learning and at this point know much less than a 16yr old floor clerk interning with a local.

    If you look at an atm option today it’s priced at 50d. If you have a view on the stock then to you a 25d strike is cheap.

    If you’re trading vol then the structure of vol through time, such as an atm strike today, tomorrow, day after, etc., changes. This can be exploited.

    If you’re trading index vol then term structure of vol futures also changes due to basis, positioning, etc. which can also be exploited.

    In fact, there are many opportunities within options to exploit. Are they easy to? No.
     
    #124     Jul 23, 2023
    cesfx and M.W. like this.
  5. Yes we are all just vibrations of strings in the 10th dimension. That does not mean knowing the difference between a mountain and a landing strip is useless. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
    #125     Jul 23, 2023
  6. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Have you actually done any real trading options or you are just analyzing atm? And can you show us some concrete strategies that you have looked at and show us what in those strategies make you think will cause "maximum pain to everybody"? Perhaps there is something that we can help you with? Many of us here have been profitable or even very profitable trading options, just to let you know.
     
    #126     Jul 23, 2023
  7. M.W.

    M.W.

    I don't know much about Stan other than this one book of his. I found the book more useful as introductory read than most other books on financial trading geared towards beginners. It teaches more about the psychology of markets than all the other crap that is out there (again, filtering out the content geared towards newcomers). Our prop group focused on longer term macro based plays across various asset classes. Though we also had a team of index options traders who made over 80 million in Asia alone until the house burned down in October 2008. Then a convertible bond guy, a very seasoned fx trader and a treasury trader. I managed the exotics book and traded correlations having come fresh out of grad school. I liked Stan's book, it wasn't too bad. I was referring to hubris as the hubris exercised by top management that had destroyed the bank that existed for over 110 years.

     
    #127     Jul 23, 2023
    taowave likes this.
  8. taowave

    taowave

    Wilders RSI and Skew in the same sentence??

    In what world???

    Wait,my bad,you must mean Relative Skew Index..

    I knew you weren't that dumb :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2023
    #128     Jul 23, 2023
    longandshort likes this.
  9. The rsi is basically your concave/convex slope and deteriorating rate of change indicator among other indicators like rate of change. Divergence of the rsi widely used...and understood. I'm not saying I trade off it but will use it to confirm my directional bias along with other things of course. Nothing takes me out of a trade...I would hedge instead.
     
    #129     Jul 23, 2023
  10. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    wohoo. Another post that beats the OP’s lifetime likes.
     
    #130     Jul 23, 2023
    taowave likes this.