Are odd lot limit orders "invisible"?

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by isaac000, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. I use IB's Smart route. Sometimes when I try to close out an odd lot position(like 83 shares, 98 shares...etc), I place a limit sell order between best bid and ask. I noticed my order didn't show up as the best Ask. It looked like a hidden order. So the question is: Are odd lot limit orders really invisible?
  2. For the order to show on Level II, the minimum order size is 100. Odd lot orders will be displayed in as round lots, but will execute against actual shares.
  3. Suppose the best ask is 50.34, size 200 shares, and you offer 90 shares at 50.31. Your order will be visible on the books of island and arca, but will not be displayed in their top-of-book quotes, and will not be displayed in the NBBO.

    Now suppose that somebody else comes and adds an offer to sell 30 shares at 50.32. A total of at least 100 shares will then become available, to anyone willing to pay 50.32 (they will get your 90 shares at 50.31, and they can have another 10 shares at 50.32, and maybe 20 more if they want it). If this happens, then an asking price of 50.32, rather than 50.34, will be disseminated for the market center, and it will be displayed in the NBBO.
  4. I also heard that trailing stops are hidden from the book until they are triggered; is that the case or not?
  5. Your question is based on untrue assumptions.

    No ECN or market center supports trailing stop orders. Trailing stop orders are computer algorithms implemented by brokers. The algorithm decides when to send market or limit orders which implement your trailing stop.

    Trailing stops are never visible to the market. Trailing stops are visible only to your own broker.
  6. Please excuse my ignorance, but I am still confused. Is my order of 90 shares displayed on ECN books as 90 shares at 50.31, or 100 shares at 50.32?

    According to j_medved, odd lot orders can not be shown on level II. Does that mean level II should show my order as 100 shares at 50.32, thus my odd lot order at 50.31 is indeed "invisible", right?

  7. Odd-lot orders are visible in the books of INET, ARCA, and possibly other ECNs (I don't know if there are any others which show odd-lot orders).

    Single odd-lot orders, by themselves, are not visible in the top-of-book quotes coming from INET, ARCA, or any other market center, but when an odd-lot order can be combined with parts of other orders, to form a round lot available on INET, ARCA, or other ECNs, THEN such round lots will also be displayed in the top-of-book quotes and the NBBO.

    I don't know about if odd-lot orders can be combined and displayed on NYSE/AMEX, but I am pretty sure that they do not do this, and that their behavour is different from the ECNs.

    I don't know about Level II.

    Medved's software, quotetracker, has a feature which it calls "Level II", which DOES display odd-lot orders when Level II data sources from INET or ARCA are selected. This might not be the same Level II you that you are talking about. Medved would probably be a better person to clarify the various definitions of the term "Level II".
  8. My reply was in reference to NASDAQ Level II, not to anything QT specific. What jimrockford described is correct. NASDAQ L II is never going to show the individual odd lot. ECN Books will. ECN Books will also combine the lots to show on NBBO. Don't know if odd lots from different ECNs/MMs would be combined - I would think not
  9. This would be impossible.
  10. Toonces


    FYI there are many brokers and quote providers that will display odd lot orders in their level 2 boxes. Normally you have the option whether to display these.
    #10     Jan 2, 2006