Are nazis coming back ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by harrytrader, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. Methods of Nazis is to create violence and apparent anarchism so as they can come and "save" the world. This has been used by the socialist president in France and a french writer has been threath by him to death and was found dead to have discovered that this guy has arrangement with the extreme right wing and that in fact his past was from extreme right wing. Now this is someone suggesting the same kind of strategy at the last social forum:

    This letter is from Stefano Agnoletto,
    spokesperson for the Genoa Social Forum.

    Dear friends

    Now, I was in Genoa, I've seen it. Don't believe the news you've seen
    in the press and on TV It was something insane, a massacre.

    It is still difficult to tell you what happened between friday and
    saturday. To do so, I'll use what I've seen together with my dear friends
    who were present in Genoa with me.

    I ask you to have the patience to read this message, it really is the
    chronicle of a nightmare which probably will not reach the mainstream
    media.

    I arrive to Genoa on thursday, after an immigrant's rights
    demonstration of about 50,000 people. There are arrival camps, many, thousands of
    peaceful people, a marvellous atmosphere (remember the boy scouts?), we
    discussed, sang and just stayed together.

    Clergy, activists, volunteers and just normal people, on friday we
    begin the issue areas in a blockaed city: The various groups partecipating
    will converge in different points of the city to have a carnivalesque
    "siege" against the "red area" [The place, in Genoa, where the G8 was
    held and demonstrations were not permitted] with street theatre, dancing
    and slogans.

    At this point, from the beach-front members of the now infamous "Black
    Block" [supposedly extremist groups blamed for most of the destruction
    in the city] arrive. Some are seen chatting with police, others just
    come out of police crowds. Most of them speak German.

    They start to break everything. Police and Carabinieri [the Italian
    military police] just stand there. The black block tries to join in with a
    group of COBAS workers [COBAS is the new Italian Trade union
    unaffiliated with party politics]. They beat up one of their leaders, the group
    manages to stay clear of them with some difficoulty.

    Then the Black Block makes head for the first issue area, belonging to
    the Italian Social Centers (Centri Sociali. Difficult to translate
    exactly, call them Community organizations). They arrive armed to the
    teeth. The police goes after them, and demonstrators find themselves
    attacked first by the black block and then by the police, which starts to
    charge violently against all demonstrators.

    The black block leaves suddenly and appears on the square were the
    Lilliput network is based (Fair trade, catholic campaign groups ecc). Its
    members try to peacefully make them leave. The police follows and
    charges against everyone on the square. Truncheons and tear gas are used
    indiscriminately.

    People raise their hands, shout "Peace". The black block leaves the
    square and starts to vandalize the city sistematically.

    300-400 of the Black Block roam Genoa, and whoever guides them seems to
    know the city very well. Their path crosses every issue area, where the
    campaigns of our movement are located.

    It's incredible. They move with military discipline, infiltrate
    everywhere, some leaders shout orders which are promptly followed by the whole
    group. And, shortly afterwards, police and Carabinieri make their
    appearance.
     
  2. Meanwhile, in the issue area where ARCI, ATTAC etc. ("mainstream"
    Italian 3rd-world campaigning organizations) are located everything is fine.
    During the early afternoon we decide to leave the boundary with the red
    zone were we were demonstrating.

    People start moving towards Dante square. Suddenly, police launches
    tear-gas from behind our march, causing panic everywhere. Hospitals fill
    with wounded demonstrators, but many do not go to hospital since police
    seems to arrest everyone who turns up there.

    Its evening, people are downbeat, many are angry. Suddenly, no trace of
    the Black block. At the old city, where the camp of the Genoa social
    forum is, there's about 10,000 of us. The news of the dead demonstrator
    reaches us. We are scared, tales of extreme police brutality are told by
    many people. Young men, nuns start crying. Many people are hurt. One
    old man is crying with a bandage on his head. He is a retired metal
    worker.

    There is Don Gallo, of the San Benedetto (catholic) community group.
    There is the leader of the mothers of Plaza De Mayo, in Argentina, those
    women who for years have been looking for their disappeared children:
    She says she is shaken at what she has seen, it's uncomfortably close to
    Argentina during the dictatorship. She did not think something similar
    would happen here.

    My brother Vittorio (Spokesman for the Genoa Social Forum), Luca
    Cesarini (leader of the Social Centers) and Bertinotti, the only politician
    with the courage to come here (the leader of the Italian refounded
    communist party, sort of the equivalent of Nader in Italian politics) try to
    calm everyone: They tell us not to come out in small groups, not to
    accept violent provocations. We decide our answer will be the enormous
    demonstration the next day, there'll be many of us, peacefully responding
    to any provocation, whether from the black block or the police.

    Senator Malabarba tells us he was at the police station. He saw strange
    people who dressed like the demonstrators, they spoke German and other
    foreign languages. Most of them come out of the station after
    exchanging a few words with the police.

    Suddenly, there is a fire at a bank close to the old city. For 40
    minutes, helicopters circle us, but no firefighters or police arrive.

    At night, one of the camps were we are sleeping, the Carlini, is
    surrounded by police: They go in and search, doing what you want. People cry.
    They ask that brutality stop. Police enters, but does not find anything
    in the camp.

    Saturday, the demonstration starts, a thousand colors. People from all
    over the world, farmers, ONGs, workers, people from Kurdistan... all
    singing, dancing, waving all sorts of flags.

    On Kennedy Square there is no violence, in fact there is no one there.
    Suddenly the Black Block appears. Police, with no warning or reason
    given, divides the demonstration in two parts. A real battle begins.
    Charges everywhere, people being beaten with truncheons. It seems cops have
    gone crazy. Metal workers, the youth wing of Rifondazione (the Italian
    left wing party) are charged. Groups of demonstrators flee and are
    followed by police. Whoever is isolated is pursued and beaten.

    Many people are telling of being beaten only for being recognized as
    demonstrators. Even the Italian correspondent of the Sunday Times is
    beaten (in today's issue of the paper he tells of his adventure).

    In a part of the march which so far was quiet, by the sea, suddenly
    tear gas is fired from the roofs. Panic ensues as people cannot breathe.

    The Black Block? They appear and disappear, no one stops them. They
    attack a youth from Rifondazione, wreck his flag, beat him. They throw
    stones at the spokesman of the Genoa Social Forum They wreck stores, set
    fire to buildings. Many are armed to the teeth. How on earth they
    managed to come to Genoa, with soldiers controlling every car?

    At the head of the march, things are still quiet. The Genoa Social
    Forum invites everyone to leave calmly, and stay together. We are being led
    to Marassi, where there are buses with everyone who arrived this
    morning.

    We stopped there, and could not go further: On Kennedy Square, there is
    a war. There are many of us just sitting there. Suddenly, tear gas is
    used, panic everywhere. We try to get back to the camp of the Genoa
    social forum. Police trucks pass us by, and policemen in them shout: "we'll
    kill you all".

    The second part of the demonstration never arrives to the square. They
    are charged by police. Many flee to the small streets, towards the
    hills, where a real man-hunt starts.

    Saturday night, the demonstration has ended hours ago, the police
    enters into the press-center of the Genoa Social Forum. They beat up
    everyone they encounter, with shocking brutality. All they seem to be after
    are documents (paper, video, pictures ecc.) which tell of what happened
    in the previous two days. Many of these documents, computers, disks are
    simply destroyed.

    The lawyer who coordinates the forum's legal team is arrested. Among
    the destroyed material, there are the documents this legal team put
    together as part of the defense of those arrested. Now, even the motives for
    their arrest are not known. During this "search", with no legal
    mandate, members of parliament, journalists, lawyers and even doctors are not
    let in the building.

    None of us have ever seen the famous weapons shown at the press
    conference yesterday. Police departs, leaving us with only those wounded and
    arrested.

    No one knows what happened to the Black Block.

    To sum it up, 2 nightmare days. Both the black block and the Police
    knew what they were doing when they committed this violence.

    All along, from friday, they insulted and verbally abused us as they
    did what they did, someone seems to have brainwashed them.

    And today, we look at the TV and read papers. My god, it seems like a
    dictatorship. Did everyone miss what we all saw? When I think that many
    will read this and say "you violent protesters just talk bullshit", I
    go mad.

    Please, don't let anyone fool you, find the courage to put your faith
    in our wonderful police and democratically accountable institutions to
    question.

    What happened in Genoa beggars belief. Some inauguration for the new
    governament. Just to give you a flavour of the spin control effort, do
    you know what the first version of the official investigation into the
    death, before the videos appeared, was? Killed by a stone launched by the
    demonstrators.

    If you think that many of the documents put together by witnesses have
    been destroyed during the "search"... the only version left to the
    public is that, "uncontestable", of the police. Please, forward, print,
    talk about this document. To everyone, friends, relatives, collegues. The
    truth has to come out. I beg you, don't look the other way.

    Thank you

    Stefano Agnoletto

    PS: My brother Vittorio (the spokesperson of the Genoa Social Forum) is
    destroyed. He told me: It's crazy, it seems we are in Latin America
    during the '70s. Maybe even he did not realize fully with whom are we
    dealing here.

    The truth has to come out.
     
  3. Communists occupied buildings in the '60s and these still remain occupied...
    More than 20 million people were killed in Soviet Union...
    Crime rate in Italy and other continental European countries is sky high because they have been run like candy stores during the last 30 years...
    Blind support to Palestine by Social Forums, other modern reds and others like you
    If you belong to a neo-Communist organization why do you write in here? Why in English?
    Write in your beloved Soviet language and on a neo-communist web-site!
    Live the real traders alone. Communism and Nazism are the same thing: PEOPLE IMPOSING THEIR VIEWS WITH VIOLENCE! You are history!
    GET LOST!
     
  4. Yes, I have read the above posts but haven't seen any of the above mentioned in either the newspaper nor on television.

    After reading the posts I still haven't got a clue as to what it is all about.

    Can anyone tell us, in a couple of sentences what exactly is going on ?

    Who is doing what to whom ? And why ?

    What are the demonstrations about ?

    Just three sentences will do please.

    freealways
     
  5. When did Nazi mentality ever really leave this planet?

    Nazism went into hiding, but the concept of one race being superior to another race, the idea that one race is to blame for all the ills of an economy, the extremist thinking that does not allow other divergent perspectives is alive and well. How many American fringe groups are now blaming Muslims for all the ills of this country right now, and meeting in private to preach their hate following 911?

    I chuckle when I watch Germany embrace socialism and liberalism with the same gusto they embraced Nazism, and demonstrate the same smug superior condescending attitude about those that have different perspectives than their's, just like their previous generations had displayed with their dogmatic ideologies.

    It is a black and white, and all or nothing, intolerant of other perspectives mindset that is at the heart of Nazism.....and unfortunately that lives in the hearts of many in this world yet today.