Are naked puts really this safe????

Discussion in 'Options' started by RedDuke, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. If implied vol increases too much, one might be shaken out of the position because of potential margin problems on short call (if not covered or not implemented correctly if naked), even if underlying does not move and option OTM.

    Also what is your initial plans on the holding period (until the end/close to the end vs. plans to definitely close it early)? This may have an implication on the volty discussion that took place in recent posts.
     
    #181     Aug 25, 2008
  2. the risk is priced into the option. due to the downward bias, puts are more expensive now so you'll be rewarded more handsomely. there is no less risk writing an 8% otm spx call than writing a 13% otm put. they have the same premium.

    you are suggesting that there is an inefficiency in pricing of calls vs. puts
     
    #182     Aug 26, 2008
  3. This is pure comedy, i actually loled. Optioncoach made a comment about selling call instead of put if a gun was to his head, and now he's getting tag teamed by 4 people.

    ROFL!
     
    #183     Aug 26, 2008
  4. That's true, basically you are saying for equal premium you can write a further OTM put than call, therefore the risk remains the same.

    But lets say if SPX is at 1300 and you write the sym 1350C or 1250P.

    Even if you received more premium on the 1250P. When the underlying moves against you, isnt it often the case vol increases MORE when SPX is moving downward. Therefore arent you better off holding the call instead of a put when the underlying moves against you DESPITE the fact you will receive more premium for the put.
     
    #184     Aug 26, 2008
  5. I'm sorry but it's wrong. Volty is largely sensitive on short term maturity. For long term maturities, volatilities don't jump. That is why you have a bigger effet when it change, a much bigger vega. 'cause it won't change easily.

    Coach, don't you think as far as you will be deep in the money, implied vol will tend to decrease. We're talking about stock index.So due to the skew for the same absolut deviation around the strike, vol will help you if you sold a put. Furthermore, if there is a rebound, volty will drop largely. Until now we have never seen an index value at zero, so the size of the slide seems to be limited.

    To be simple, when underlying move AGAINST you

    Short Call, delta against you, vol against you
    Short put, delta against, vol for you.
     
    #185     Aug 26, 2008
  6. Maw,

    With regards to the discussion in point 2, I understand that what you mean is the impact of the implied vol changing as function of distance of strike to underlying price, and whether it is below or above the price of the underlying.

    But if you use point 1., there is also a reduction of vol across all strikes.

    So the overall effect is rather the combination of points 1. and 2.

    In addition, I think the discussion should also consider whether one holds till the end. In such case, the changes of vol as per the discussion above may not be the real issue. Instead, the real question would be whether the implied volty sold is higher than or lower than the realized (the one to be revealed not the historical one) volty.
     
    #186     Aug 26, 2008
  7. My point is, for sure whether the market make a big gap up or down, there will be an implied volatility increase. Broadly the same risks for calls and puts.

    But a continuous slide to a short put seller is much more better than a continuous rise to a short call seller.
    For stock indexes, due to the skew if you're deep in the money for a put, vol is low, if you're deep in the money for a call, vol is high.
     
    #187     Aug 26, 2008
  8. jagmot

    jagmot

    I know someone who was short BSC puts. Me.

    You can see the post here.
    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1837820&highlight=bsc#post1837820

    and a few after it...

    (I was short BSC originally both the stock and naked calls and made good money but not enough to cover the BSC loss)

    Selling naked options is risky, however cash covered puts are not risky. Theoretically, you cannot cash cover a call but in reality there is a limit. I use a double as my coverage on the call side.
     
    #188     Aug 26, 2008
  9. jagmot

    jagmot

    Agree 100% on both points here.
     
    #189     Aug 26, 2008
  10. jagmot

    jagmot

    OC has a directional bias. He is stating that there is more risk to the downside, ie. he thinks the market is heading lower. He is not saying that the pricing of calls is inefficient to puts. Nice try though.
     
    #190     Aug 26, 2008