Are my ambitions too much?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by drosengarden, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. Hello all!

    Let me first preface this post by stating that I am greatful for your comments, feedback, and observations to my ideas and thoughts.

    I am new to trading. But I know that something must be done if I ever want to "break the mold" of my "better than average" ordinary Joe status. So I've been looking at trading - and I get this idea that I've heard over time! DAY TRADING!

    I've come up with a very simple strategy that compares 5min 30 bar breakouts with 1min 30 bar breakouts as indicators to Buy/Short the SPY. So far - based on total systematic transactions - I've returned $21,371.70 (I think after commissions if I understand my broker's commission structure correctly and I'm not surprised with other 'hidden fees') in 10 days (on paper) using an investment capitol of $125,000. (Roughly purchasing/shorting 960+/- shares at each transaction - about an average of 8 trades per day - always closing out at the end of the day.)

    This looks very attractive to me! However - I now feel lost.

    I require the ability to create an "automated trading platform" to execute these positions for me - giving me the ability to have a "limited" watch over the market's performace. A simple alert that I've been put in/taken out every now and again will be enough for me to be "in control" of the situation.

    I feel lost because I started out not knowing where to find an automated trading platform like this - to now finding TOO MANY. And then some you must go with the broker who provides the software - others - I don't quite understand how it works, etc., etc.

    Like I said - I am new.

    I wonder if you could help me better understand about what it is I am considering jumping into here.

    What do I expect for commissions? (Hidden fees, etc.?)

    What do I expect for ability of orders to be placed and honored "immediately."

    Where do I turn for a good AND TRUSTED automated trading platform and accompanying broker who is reputable and not considered a "thief."

    What is the automated trading platform with the EASIEST "programming language" that will allow me to actually implement a strategy and see it work as I am expecting?

    How do I avoid real time data feed delays and/or downtimes in the middle of trading?

    Where can I be more enlightened from my naivity that I set up a broker account, get software that triggers orders for me automatically, set up the software, press the go button, orders are fulfilled immediately in and out, my commissions are exactly what I saw on the advertisement, I end the day with profits...REPEAT?

    I think you get the idea - I am swimming in excitement about what I see I've done on paper - just not finding it so easy to get into the game the way I need (with the automated features.)

    Thanks again for anytime you spend on this. It is greatly appreciated.
  2. I've noticed that several people have read my post - but alas - no replies. Perhaps they were newer people and couldn't answer my questions. Perhaps they were seasoned people and didn't want to waste time with my rambling.

    OR MAYBE...

    I've posted this in the wrong location. Any suggestions here where I can find more interaction to my questions and desire for an "interactive education" of sorts?

    Thanks again for your time!
  3. teun


    Probably you are, although new to trading, further than most people who read your post. Most people that start don't make 30% return in a short notice (you don't mention the timeframe in which you made the money, but reading through the line it seems that it's didn't take long).

    About the automation platform. There are lots of topics here on this subject. What I hear is that IB + Ninja works fine (Ninja works with c#, but for simple strategies you don't need to use this language).
  4. HEY HEY! I feel the love! Thanks for responding.

    To answer your question - I believe that I did mention the time frame. That return came over a 10 day period. (10 Trading Days.) However - the likelyhood that this is EXACT will be determined by REAL LIVE trading experience. (Hence one of my questions - how likely is it that I have a little less than 1000 shares per each trade (about 8/day) hit the exact price that I see on the minute ticker when the order is placed? The SPY has about 200 to 400 million in volume daily - OH and is there any way to see the criteria of that volume - how many selling - how many buying?)

    As for the Auto Trading - you say that Interactive Brokers (I believe that's what this means) and Ninja Trader works fine - but I take that to mean you don't have first hand experience? What are other options that are considered to be "rave reviews?" Also - about the programming language - which of these platforms has the "rave reviews' AND the ability to easily program the auto criteria?

    Thanks for taking the time!
  5. If you want to go the automated route, start with SmartQuant, then work your way down.

    Good Luck.
  6. cold


    hello OP


    how are you.

    Are you good

    in all this auto mauto talk, did it ever occur to you that EVEN if you have a decent edge and I think you don't, did it ever occur to you that you will be handing that edge to your broker

    see me for example, I took steps needed to confuse the broker with 3 accounts, and purposeful controlled losses

    but I guess none of this occurred to you cause you got nothing to protect

    now ET be predictable and laugh at me :cool:
  7. cold, WTF are you talking about?

    see me for example, I took steps needed to confuse the broker with 3 accounts, and purposeful controlled losses---->> Confuse your broker? The last thing this guy needs to do is confuse his broker. You think the broker is out there spying on his activity trying to ensure he loses or perhaps they can win off him by taking the other side of him? C'mon guys, this is total crap. Does it happen? Shit, maybe it does but that should be the last of your concerns. Confusing your broker should not be a concern.
    Pardon all my typo's....I'm sure there are plenty and I surely don't want to have to go back and proof read all this: :mad:'s the hard cold truth. Real trading is NOTHING like simulated trading but kudo's to you for realizing you do need to so some sim trading before you hit the real world. You mentioned breakouts. Now this is just my opinion and no reflection upon those who like to trade breakouts and possibly make money trading's the absolute worst strategy out there. If you want to find an edge you have to do something DIFFERENT. Doing what you find in a TA book that you can pull off the shelf just won't work. The market is just too complex for something as archaic as, "the price crossed this line so I buy" method to work.

    There are 4 elements to trading. Money Management, Risk Management, Timing, and You. You put two guys on the same chart and you'll get two different results. You have to start by working on yourself before you do anything else. What are your strenghts, your weakness, and how will they help of hinder your trading?

    It takes years and years and years to learn this business and there's nothing like instincts. Trading is highly intuitive but it takes a lot of time to develop that intuition. So, my advice to you is forget about the brokers, forget about fancy platforms, and commissions, and hiding from your broker. If you really want to win at this game the first thing you need to understand is yourself. Once you have that knowledge start learning about money management. You say you've been trading 1000 shares of SPY? Great, your first lesson is you don't need to put all 1000 shares on with 1 trigger. Is there another way? Is timing your only tool? Right now it sounds as though it is. That is NOT a good edge. You won't win. The market can be timed but only sometimes. You'll get stung the rest of the times so you need more tools. There is a delicate balance between generating profits and controlling risk. You have to be able to walk that line but you'll only learn that with time.

    So there's your on yourself first, then work on money management, then risk management, and timing comes last. Since you're new to the markets this advice is probably counter intuitive and doesn't jive with anything you've learned yet. Is that a good thing or a bad thing. You have to do something different. Try buying down, and selling up on your sim trading. If the market is falling, falling, falling and collapes buy. Just give it a shot. If you work on that and you manage to get the timing of that trigger down you will be well ahead of the curve, not on it, or behind it. You have to have some sort of edge and that can come by doing what everyone isn't. Think about it.

  8. dumbgai


    you are too optimistic.

    do more testing, 10 days mean nothing.
  9. cold


    Profit taking fool

    because I know for a fact that you are a real trader, I'll try not to embarrass you in public too much

    why do you assume that we all do the same thing

    I know what you do, you posted it many times, you buy dips and sell tops on day trading basis, and it works for you

    you also said how you use doubling number of cars in some of your consecutive trades

    but do you really think that we all do the same thing

    put it simply my way is better in all ways

    I worked for a broker in my youth, I STOLE RECORDS OF CLIENTS, TOOK them home and studied them

    come on man, some of us were born pretty hungry man

    you have no idea the shit I went through, I started out eating pigeon poo :mad:
  10. Cold,

    Could you help me out at all with understanding excatly what it is you just said. I don't understand much any of it at all. You're using terminology that has me a bit confused as to what you're trying to get at.

    How do I give my broker the control by going the "auto" route?

    And what exactly did you do to cause confusion for your broker and WHY did you have to cause that confusion?

    Thanks for your input!
    #10     Mar 25, 2008