Are financial programmers under paid?

Discussion in 'Automated Trading' started by nitro, Jun 26, 2009.

Are financial programmers underpaid?

  1. Yes, they sell themselves out too easily

    73 vote(s)
    40.6%
  2. No, they are scum that are mostly lazy

    39 vote(s)
    21.7%
  3. I am not sure

    31 vote(s)
    17.2%
  4. I don't care

    37 vote(s)
    20.6%
  1. nitro

    nitro

    I understand what you are saying. Imo, it is incorrect to blame our brethren from the land of the dragon, or our brethren from the land of the tiger. I have worked with many of them and they are hard working and well trained for the most part.

    However, they have almost zero domain knowledge. Even in this case of no domain knowledge, they often take minimal wages (which in Chicago I define as $80k plus bonus for someone who is not right out of school) to work in high intensity environments of financial markets. This is not like working at Walgreens as a programmer. They sell themselves out too cheaply in this industry. However, they are beginning to get it too, imo.
     
    #11     Jun 26, 2009
  2. nitro

    nitro

    That doesn't explain it at all. In any contract, two people have to come to an agreement. If enough programmers say no, the price goes higher, and more accurately reflects value. That is the whole point of what I am trying to convey!

    Imo the problem lay in the misrepresentation of price vs value. Most people that get into this business don't know what they are getting into. "Programming is programming". As they gain experience, they begin to realize that the financial markets require more than showing up.

    BTW, the Woz is retired a multi-millionaire many times over.
     
    #12     Jun 26, 2009
  3. nitro, I'm not taking a jab at their ability to program but the fact is, the H1 crowd has driven the rates down substantially. I don't blame them - I mean, they're new to the country and just glad they're even here so they'll take any pay. The industry takes advantage of them. But at the end of the day, the rates get driven lower because they're willing to accept a position for half the pay.
     
    #13     Jun 26, 2009
  4. nitro

    nitro

    Agreed on all counts.
     
    #14     Jun 26, 2009
  5. Fsck. I got 140 (total) last year, and they said the bonus was bad because of the financial crisis. I'm getting 120 base now, but I'm an independent contractor though I get a bonus and some shitty health plan. I'm still paying back student costs, and owe $10,000.

    I sold myself short, because my resume looks spotty. Problem is, it isn't my work -- I finish the jobs I'm given. It's just that I keep getting screwed when it comes to compensation. I was hoping this new place would work out better, and we're trading profitably.

    You guys are demoralizing me. Been real hard to code the last few days, because I keep thinking about how I want to pay off school and then not worry about the rent, but it just isn't happening.

    I need to take a real vacation before I lose it, I think.
     
    #15     Jun 26, 2009
  6. I'm constantly 'looking' even though I have a job. I don't know if this helps or hurts me.

    My NY progression was: 92 -> 110 -> 140 -> now 120 + whatever is coming to me.

    Financially, it's never made sense to stick around in any one place but then I get screwed on every negotiation because they say I don't stick around. But why would I stick around if someone is willing to pay more for the same job?

    I don't know what to tell these recruiters and employers about my hopping around. Maybe if these douchebags would pay me a fair price up front, I'd stick around.
     
    #16     Jun 26, 2009
  7. Then that is exactly what you need to convey to them. The trick is to demonstrate what you can do once your foot is in the door, and you've had some time to show off your skills. If you are walking on water in any profession, you stand up for what you think you are worth; you'd be amazed what they will do to keep you.

    The H1-B 'crowd'-- hard workers as they are, have additional shackles built into their visas; so they have an extreme disincentive to walk away from or threaten to leave their employers. Be
    thankful that you on the other hand, do not, and use that advantage wisely.
     
    #17     Jun 26, 2009
  8. rosy2

    rosy2

    i agree completely. i used to contract years ago because the rates were so high and fulltime jobs never came close. But now rates are actually lower and fulltime trading programming jobs have gone up (at least in chicago).

    I think when people look for a job the should ask if they can get a piece of the pie and ask if they can invest money into the firm.
     
    #18     Jun 26, 2009
  9. rosy2

    rosy2

    Yes and no.

    Some firms dont know what a programmer can even do. So if they hire someone good that guy will be bored if not utilized well. If they hire someone bad that guy will always look busy because he's putting out fires.

    Other firms know whats required and will pay a lot. There's a few firms here that pay very well.
     
    #19     Jun 26, 2009
  10. I'm in Chicago. Which firms comp. well around here?
     
    #20     Jun 26, 2009