Did you type that last post without a monitor? Or are you that incredibly lazy that you can't be bothered with the "backspace" button on your keyboard? Do us all a favor and use the "check spelling" feature that Baron has provided for us. You shouldn't be giving advice about anything when your post is barely readable. Ax
You forgot that the guys are trading firm's capital, so in the beginning they can lose as much as they want with 100 shares (how much can a guy lose with 100 shares?), and if they ever show a sign of life they get 200, then 300, 500, 700, 1000, so they can make back their losses exponentially faster than if they were trading their own money. I believe in giving everyone a chance and if a guy is cutting his losses I will not touch his shares. A slow bleed is acceptable to me, not everyone can turn that corner, I was in the same boat a year and 3 months ago. I have to put myself in their shoes as long as they are trying hard.
Dear Mr. Bright, When I first saw of the bashing you took on these boards, I did believe you were inappropriately using these boards to solicit business, but I figuredif it worked for you, how stupid can you be. Indeed, none of this should be a surprise to anyone. After all, how many CEOs of companies spend so much time on the wev, purprtedly with altruistic reasons As time wore on, I found you to be more and more offensive and clearly saw through your veiled attempt to help traders. Yet, since I was not sure, I sent you an email, which I will gladly post here along with your response if you would like to seriously take issue with my statements. The proof is what it is, that is I sent you a long personal email explaining my situation and asking you for advice as someone who had been in the industry for a while. In no way, shape or form did I indicate that I was solicited a job from you and, in fact, clearly stated that I believed I was in the wrong industry. In response, behid closed doors where when you apprantly did not feel you had to even feitgn sincerity, you responded by telling me that if I wanted to succeed, I had to forget everything I knew and come to Vegas for your five day seminar. With limited respect, please allow me to inform you that I have learned more in year of reading everything I could get my hands on and observing this market and its moves. Ironically, when I was inl law school, I taught myself everything I knew because I was able to sift through the seveny five pecent of that was usesless and ket things simple. That you even suggested that one forgets everything they ever learned is the epitome of a man who is completely psychologically unaware. Now, I never would have said any of this, despite how nausous I was upon receiving your email which proved beyond any doubt that you could not care about one single individual on these boards and any attempt you make to show that you do is solely a manipulated efffort to show prospective Bright Traders that you are sp altruistic. But then I saw this: "We do have "non -U.S. residents" with our firm, just for the record....and we will happily send them back to WorldCo after they become citizens...." First, I did not catch your exchange with this individual, but am sure it was just another example of a grown man spending arguing with twenty-somethings, regardless if rght or wrong. Second, where do you get the audacity to make a statement like that? It was one of the most classless things I have ever seen and I could not believe that a man who runs a national organization would stoop to such a level to demean his competition, and I think very little of you. Now, while there is surely some justified criticism of Worldco, as there is of every trading firm, certain facts remain. As an ex employee, I had the pleasure of meeting numerous executives who offered sound advice whenever you asked. Further, instead of charging 5,000 dollars just to be educated BEFORE becomming employed, when you were employed, there were a plethora of tapes and seminars for any individual who cared to take the initiative to learn. There is also no end to information on the web an in bookstores to further ones education. You see, if one is going to embark upon a career that enables them freedom, they must have the drive to use everything available to them to succed. This included the knowledge of traders like Hitman who I saw take an effort to see his team succeeded. Additionally, for whatever you have against Worldco, except that perhaps they cant proclaim that they write for a magazine where anyone with a braon sees you avoid answering most questions if it will divulge any of your firms "secrets." , it should be noted that new traders are often given mouy to tide them offer as they are learning and have numerous times wiped a traders slate clean if their losses in the first year became large. I suppose this reflect the reality, which I wonder if you tell new traders before you take a tolal of 15,000 from them and not risk a dime, that they best of traders blew out and need at least a year to master the market. In the end, perhaos you would like to share with all of us what percentage of your traders who are out 5,000 before they start and are usually undercapitalized from the start, make a dime before they lose fifteen thousand dollars, which of course goes to you. To be sure, dwhere you tout how great yoru systems are, do you do more than tell traders that it is risky as requireed by law, teh chances of them leaving broke. The ultimate indignity is where you often remind traders, out of the goodness of your heart, to see if a firm is properly capitalized, the capitalization of your firm appeers to be largely irrelevant. Why? Because as I am sure you will admit, you do not have any money at risk. Where a person puts up 10,000, the first 10,000 ofg losses are his, not yours. And while I am sure you will confirm this because you are an honest professional, when that 10,000 is gone, so are they, along with the money they may have spent moving to Vegas after you made it seem so easy to succeed. My last question to you would be: If someone comes and pays their 15,000, do you ever turn them away because their pedigree is not sufficient? And, with all of your great systems and techniques, do you offer psycholological counseling? For, as you very know based upon your experience, the best system in the world placed in the smartest person in the world is not going to work if someone has psycholofical issues that they will play out in the market, and which can never be resolved by reading books alone. Mr. Bright, I sent you a personal email and asked for advice and hel based upon your experience in the industry and what I perceived to be the respect you had in the industry. My question cearly stated that I did not think tht day trading was for me. You told me to forget what I know and come give you 5.000. Fortunately, I dont soon forget when someone tries to take advantage of me. Scott Stern, Esq.
"You are correct, but the deposit money is still yours, and allows you to save a considerable amount in commissions every month. Just a different business model. Good Luck!!" When a nerw trader comes to your firm and losed a few thousand dollars adn decides to leave, how much of that money sis "still his" And, while I am at is, are you giving him that money back to him after that month or is there something buried in your contract requiring that you have to hold the money for six months or a year. In fact, is that not a NASD rule? Clearly, your email implies that if he becomes net negative 10,000, that money is "still his." I think we would all like a clarification. Because if you just want to hold someone's 10,000, give him some interest, and give it bacvk to me when he leaves no matter how much he may have lost trading, then that is a great deal! All this and better commissions too! (If you reloicaate to Vegas, of course)
DC441711 You indicated that you are or were a law student. You may want to check your grammar and spelling before you present your case.
uh, DC44... are you here to trade?, improve in your trading by becoming aware of other brave individuals who bear their experiences to the WWW (world wide web) with abandon, or are your here for ....(what) ...? most of us learn, exchage, share, encourage, upbuild and so forth. Everynow and then, some of us feal indignant over experiences incurred, and share these with (who really knows) others on these boards. Everynow and then, some share their trading journals, because a number of books teach us that improvement comes from self discipline, and documenting our experiences. Who knows, perhaps self improvement also comes from reflection upon these journals from time to time. Trading is not only a lonely business, its one of those business that you find at the pinacle of a person's career. Few stay on point, many aspire to achieve balance, however, one thing's certain, it is an individual endeavour. Law, psychology and the other references to other careers you mentioned, share other tenants and principles, that simply are not in common with trading. My extensive technical background provides me an insight that's very useful in this endeavor. In particular, the people skills, and a respect for others' opinions, in that we try to not step upon each other so hard. Trading's not for everyone. I know that the Bright class of five days is well documented in other threads on this board, and clearly the same message was given to those persons, who came.. Many stated that it was radical learning and a complete change in their paradigm. The challenge has always been: "are you making money or not" through the methods you use or do you need other methods?. Most attendees stated yes. I know that knowledge is very hard to come by in this entreprenuarial business, particularly positive earnings knowledge. Learning how someone did previously, and reading through three pages of disclaimers as the opening paragraph (no doubt crafted by a lawyer) does not teach postive earnings knowledge.
Where your message seemed well intentioned, although it did not address one specific claim I made against Mr. Bright, no matter how many boards he on, I decided I would respond to you. are you here to trade?, improve in your trading by becoming aware of other brave individuals who bear their experiences to the WWW (world wide web) with abandon, or are your here for ....(what) ...? ---- I was here specifically to see Hitman's Journals. I enjoy them and like to get a perspective as to what other traders did on a given day. I believe that you thought I was being Anti-Hitman in my post. Clearly that was not the case. I am not a psychologist, but have read many books on trading and psychology (as well as logged a few hours on the couch myself . And if there is one thing I have read in every book is that psychology is as important as any other factor in trading. I did not later state so, but Hitman's later post proved my point. He said that he was on a great streak. So what did he do? He changed is strategy based upon an emotional decision regarding pairs decision and the unresolved issue with his ex. It has been said that any unresolved issues one has will be worked out in the market. I believe this fits, especially when doing so was when he was on such a hot streak. Now, if I wanted to get psychological, I could have talked about self-sabatoge limiting further gains and the need for people (not just him) to try and move on in life, as hard as it is. I don't believe I did that. I do believe, however, that I took exception with people who made fun of him. ---- Next, in retrospect, I was probably in that email just talking to hear myself talk. I have been sick and stuck in the house. Fair enough . most of us learn, exchange, share, encourage, upbuild and so forth. every now and then, some of us feel indignant over experiences incurred, and share these with (who really knows) others on these boards. --- My indignation with Mr. Bright is based on a specific personal issue I have with an exchange we had. And while I remained silent about it, when he personally attacked another firm, Hitman's firm no less, as well as many of my friend's, I felt warranted in making my statement. First, I made it to him, personally, and not generally toward an organization. Second, as opposed to an organization, he has every opportunity to defend himself. Indignant? I was and am really pissed off, especially where he holds himself out to be a friend to the masses. every now and then, some share their trading journals, because a number of books teach us that improvement comes from self discipline, and documenting our experiences. Who knows, perhaps self improvement also comes from reflection upon these journals from time to time. --- As I said, I am in the pro Hitman camp. Trading is not only a lonely business, its one of those business that you find at the pinnacle of a person's career. Few stay on point, many aspire to achieve balance, however, one thing's certain, it is an individual endeavor. Law, psychology and the other references to other careers you mentioned, share other tenants and principles, that simply are not in common with trading. My extensive technical background provides me an insight that's very useful in this endeavor. In particular, the people skills, and a respect for others' opinions, in that we try to not step upon each other so hard. --- Partially agreed. don't know why I put the Esq. in there to begin. Kind of stupid. Ill blame it on the meds..... I do agree with you that being a lawyer has no benefit as a trader and that most "professionals" have a hard time making the transition. One most frustrating aspect is that no matter how hard you work, this will not guarantee success. As far as being lonely, I had my own practice for years and am divorced. Got that down to a science. My only vehement disagreement is regarding psychology. Perhaps we are not on the same page, but surely you are not arguing that if you do not have proper discipline, are a gambler, are a mess because of personal circumstances, that this will not make it quite difficult to succeed? As far as stepping on hands, I am not like that, and am quite the opposite. But, in this case, I wanted to step. Trading's not for everyone. I know that the Bright class of five days is well documented in other threads on this board, and clearly the same message was given to those persons, who came.. Many stated that it was radical learning and a complete change in their paradigm. The challenge has always been: "are you making money or not" through the methods you use or do you need other methods?. Most attendees stated yes. --- I believe that my concerns regarding Mr. Bright, regardless of if his class is good, has been sufficiently stated. But taking your statement as true, the question would not apply to a new trader, who would pay 5,000, then 10,000, before ever having made a trade and with the odds against his success. Further, Mr. Bright's comment that the 10,000 was "still his" was a knowing misrepresentation. If I open up an account with E-Trade, the money is still mine. That Mr. Bright offers higher leverage does not mean that the losses accrued in the account are "not his." I know that knowledge is very hard to come by in this entrepreneurial business, particularly positive earnings knowledge. Learning how someone did previously, and reading through three pages of disclaimers as the opening paragraph (no doubt crafted by a lawyer) does not teach positive earnings knowledge. --- Bottom line. New traders who I know who have succeeded took about 6 moths to do so. And they first had nice drawdowns, none of which was less than 5,000. So when a new trader, armed with the best of information, goes down 5,000, he will need to make back 100 percent of his capital to break even. He will also have paid 5,000 before this. With 10,000 invested and no longer "his" the pressure will mount and, in my opinion, only the select few will make it. --- Finally, so there is no confusion. I have traded and lost a good bit of money in my early experiences. Through this experience, doing extensive reading and research, and aligning myself with a successful trader that is teaching me, I am sticking with this. I do not believe I will make a lot of money in the near future. Not with my strategy and not in this market. I do not hold myself out to be a great trader, even though I know a lot about what to do. I made my comments and my emails because it strikes me that someone is on these boards attempting to take advantage of people. If any of you don't like that, that is fine. Now where is that spell check button
re-read hitman origin and I have no doubt his pricess is real http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1670&perpage=6&pagenumber=3
Not a bad start for the week although it was a slow one, 8800 shares each way on 8 of 11 shooting, +750 before commissions, +599 after, no bullets. Pre-Market: IBM warned hence the dramatic gap-down. Rising energy price . . . 9:30: Lost 10 cents on TXN long, made 35 cents on ABT short, made 18 cents on HON short, lost 10 cents MDT short. +$200. 9:40: Went long MXT for 30 cents on credit service move, caught NOR for a 30 cents move with a "bitter sweet" Tony Oz reversal. 10:00: Churned LM, MGA and EMN, took DHI and out for flat, totally misjudged the amazing strength of home builders as it ripped almost a point from there. Took a long break at Chinatown and got a hair cut. 3:00: Got another 20 cents from NOR and decided to call it a day as time ran out . . . Team Stats: 10 of 10 active traders 54800 shares each way on 34 of 63 shooting (54%) +2865 before commissions (7 of 10 positive) +1576 after commissions (7 of 10 positive) Top 3 Symbols: APC, ABT, EOG Bottom 3 Symbols: KMI, FDC, TXN
I know you mentioned it before but I lost the Post - what is your current payout - and are you currently keeping all of your payout or still contributing to your capital account ? Can you trade the qqq's and spy's on island and what would be your commission ? Finally, I trade baskets - the same 20 stocks in the basket everyday - do you know if it would be possible to purchase bullets for my stocks for the entire month instead of having to pay each day? and what is the cost for bullets ? thanks