..and these vendors are all the same. I can't believe people are paying 2000 bucks to go to a 'seminar' like this. Of course, once you pay that kind of money, you have a vested interest in feeling that you weren't taken. It's human nature. I base my opinions on their nearly worthless book. Vendors are vendors are vendors. It's about taking your money. If they had anything nearly as great as they claim, they'd be out their trading and don't give me all the same old tired excuses about why vendors don't trade. Or that they do trade their ideas, but still like to make the extra money vendoring. No. Vendoring is much easier money and a lot less risky. I once paid 3k for Indigo...one of the great trading vendor scams of all time. But I learned my lesson. gs
As to the book, the fact that you didn't find it to be "all that worthwhile" does not necessarily mean that everyone will find as little in it as you did. And as for finding their techniques to be "detrimental to any trader", that depends entirely on the type of trader. Other traders think it's just great. And as for paying $ to attend a seminar that contains "information that any individual can get for free", what information specifically does the seminar contain that one can get elsewhere for free? --Db
For novice traders, these seminars are the way to go. Because how would they know what to look for? But some are just way too expensive for what you get.
No, no, no! They are just a way to fleece the unwary novice. PT Barnum is reincarnated as a trading vendor...I'm sure of it. gs
I'll have to disagree with you there, Cathy. There are some excellent books out there which, along with real-time charting, paper-trading, and time will accomplish much that the various seminars will. At the very least, I'd suggest self-training for a while, then a month in a trading room, whether Pristine or not. To attend a seminar or join a trading room without knowing anything at all is unlikely to be a productive use of time. For one thing, how is one to know what questions to ask? --Db
I agree that some people will gain more from the book than others. I did not say all of their techniques were detrimental, my statement was that some of the techniques are detrimental. In earlier posts I specifically pointed out one such disagreement with the books arbitrary $1.00 stop loss. I don't care what type of trader you are, placing a value of $1.00 as a stop loss regardless of stock price is not good advice (at least in my opinion). The paying of $ to attend a seminar that contains information any individual can get for free is based purely on the post by SWISH only a few posts prior. He advised he had gotten some psychological insights. If you look at the 5 main points he got from the seminar, would you pay $2000 for those wonderful insights? I remember reading those same insights in almost every book, magazine, website, bulletin board, chat room, and pieces of toilet paper I have ever read I personally have not been to any Pristine seminars, but if what SWISH walked away with is what the majority of students walk away with I will say that a $2000 price tag is way too much. DB, I am not disagreeing with you at all, simply put you are trying to put a positive spin on Pristine by saying you can learn from them. I agree, you can learn from them, but I do not believe the $2000 is worth its value. Could a trader learn from the seminar, yes... is it worth the cost, no.
The point I was trying to make was that there is much of value at Pristine. That, to me, is a positive, not a "spin". As to the seminars, I can't speak to them since I've never been to one. But then neither have you. You can state an opinion based on hearsay, but that has to do with the witness, not with the seminar itself. As to the $1, I see nothing sinful about that. In a momentum market, a tight stop is irrelevant. In a choppy market, many consider it to be a necessity. --Db
I retract the term "spin", it was not the best choice of wording. Your intentions are well taken and I interpret your intentions to be a demonstration that Pristine does have value. We have gone in circles on this point as I agree there is value, just not worth the money. SWISH attended the seminar and posted what he learned, this is not hearsay, it is testimony. It is something SWISH has experienced first hand. Hearsay would be if he is attempting to quote what the instructor stated or if I had a conversation with SWISH and then posted my own interpretation of what he learned. Fortunately his original post is available for us to read which would negate hearsay. An argument could be made that what SWISH learned indirectly was out of the mouth of the instructor, but for the most part you would have to agree that his statements would be considered straight testimony as to his experiences and what he learned for his $2000. SWISH is discussing his thought process and what he came away with, this is not hearsay. As to the $1 stop loss. While you may see nothing wrong with it, I believe a trading system that includes the same $1 stop for a $15 stock or a $45 stock does not make any sense and is based on a poor foundation. In addition Pristine continues to make weekly plays which after entry have the purpose of obtaining arbitrary amounts of money. They have goals to make $1.50-$3.00 in gains over the next few days. Does that show a clear exit strategy? What happens if you reach $3.00 and based on technicals it still is going strong? What if you reach $1.25 in profits and indicators reverse? I believe the risk management portion of the Pristine book is poor to say the least. DB, neither of us has been to the seminar... I am taking the stance that based on all the things I have learned about Pristine including the book, the daily insights, this thread, etc. I would not spend the $2000 to attend the seminar. Based on everything you know at this point in time would you spend a sizeable amount of money to take the Pristine Seminar? If you are too experienced to take it, would you really recommend a close friend take the seminar? (I state sizeable amount of money as SWISH advised it was a whopping sum. To some people $2000 would be unaffordable and to others it would be a drop in the bucket. For purposes of the question visualize it to be a sizeable percentage of your overall equity.)
No, I wouldn't take the seminar. I wouldn't attend any seminar. Nor would I suggest that anyone attend a seminar. I'm just trying to focus on the original question, which addressed Pristine in general, not the seminars in particular. And the distinction you're trying to make between hearsay and testimony is a bit specious given that the poster didn't expect so much to be made of his comments. His post isn't exactly an affidavit. The fact is that the only thing you know of the seminars is what you've heard. So your opinion is based not on the seminars themselves, but on what somebody else has said about them. That's like forming an opinion of a ballot initiative from TV ads rather than from reading it. I don't understand what this argument is about. There is value to be found in Pristine to those who take the time to look for it. As for the seminars, I couldn't care less about the seminars. The seminars are unimportant. Pristine is about more than seminars. If you attend one, I'd love to know what you thought about it. In the meantime, can we stop? --Db
I have tracked the official calls in the Pristine Trading Room for the last 15 weeks. I track each & every call. Here are the results: Average trades per week 41 Total wins ( ave per week) 18 Total losers 23 Win Percent 44% Loss percent 56% (Flat trades average about 2 per week are not counted in percents or trades per week) Average dollar loss per week ($6.27) Average dollar win per week $8.42 Average net per week $ 2.15 There are more loosing trades than wins, but the losses average $.27 and the winners average gain is $.49 As you can see the room calls are profitable, but your commission rate and share size will determine if you take any home. Many members in the room use a broker associated w/ Pristine that charges $12.95 per trade. (Rate based on this volume of trades. In addition, these people pay no room fee of $350 per month). 41 trades is 82 tickets plus another 20 for partial trades. So w/ an average of 100 tickets per week that is $1300. in commissions. So one would need to have a share size of 600 to break even. If you trade more shares than that, you make some money. If you use a broker like IB, you can do a bit better than break even w/ approx 200 shares per trade and that will cover the room fee as well. The true value in the room is the education which is first class. I am not associated w/ Pristine, just a room member.