Anyone think Trump is going to keep pumping the market?

Discussion in 'Options' started by RGLD, May 21, 2019.

  1. When the head of the Fed comes out and says it also, you know it's a wrap... Bernanke said Subprimes are good, then said Subprimes were contained few months before Lehman... The Fed chairs are notoriously known to lie and that everything is always good, so for Powell to come out and even acknowledge some of it...

    https://markets.businessinsider.com...siness-debt-a-moderate-risk-2019-5-1028218876

    Many older articles late 2018 detailing situation on the exact numbers, but this article highlights a speech he gave Monday evening.

    The central bank chief warned overly indebted firms could endure "severe financial strain" if the economy weakens, and a highly leveraged business sector could exacerbate an economic downturn as companies are forced to lay off workers and reduce investment.

    However, the build up of business debt "does not present the kind of elevated risks to the stability of the financial system that would lead to broad harm to households and businesses should conditions deteriorate," Powell said.

    "In public discussion of this issue, views seem to range from 'This is a rerun of the subprime mortgage crisis' to 'Nothing to worry about here,'" he added. "At the moment, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle."

    Powell acknowledged similarities between the recent spike in business debt and the lending boom that preceded the global financial crisis. Debt has surged to historic highs and outpaced growth in borrowers' incomes, lenders have loosened their underwriting standards, and much of the borrowing is financed outside the banking system.
     
    #31     May 22, 2019
  2. dozu888

    dozu888

    ok.... so?

    they learned the lesson from 2008 right? imagine, if QE was done at the first sign of the 2008 disaster, would we still have the disaster?

    yes this sounds nuts lol.... but they do have the unlimited liquidity to wash over any problems... the problem in 2008 was they hesitated and the market had to tank and a few big firms had to go under and numerous homes had to foreclose lol.

    so yeah sure right now the corporate debt is huge... but, if apple can issue debt for 3%, and buy back stocks that are yielding 6.5%, who can blame them...

    you can only blame the stupidity of the bond buyers, they are brain washed by their financial advisers that 'bonds are safe'...

    so corporations have been doing a massive 'knowledge arbitrage' here... no brainer to borrow money to buy back shares. so we small investors just need to join the game.
     
    #32     May 22, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  3. RGLD

    RGLD


    THAT IS F***IN INSANE!! O_O

    Borrowing at high yield and spending it on stock buy backs!?! That's like your broker charging 20% and you putting it all in google.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
    #33     May 22, 2019
  4. dozu888

    dozu888

    lol you been living under a rock.. it's been going on for how many years already..

    'high yield' maybe a misnomer though... as it usually refers to junk... but most sp500 bonds are investment grade... so e.g. apple's corporate bonds are yielding what.. 3% ish... but their forward earning yield is at 6.8%

    the real insanity imo is in the bond buyers... who in their right mind would forego something yielding 6.8, but choose 3 instead.... from the same company.

    on a broader scale.. LQD is yielding 3.5%, but SP500 is yielding 5.8%... see who are insane here... can't be all these companies borrowing at 3.5 to buy 5.8 right... free money, why wouldn't they.
     
    #34     May 22, 2019
    athlonmank8 and RGLD like this.
  5. RGLD

    RGLD

    When you say apple is yielding at 6.8%.. You're not talking about P/E.. Apple's P/E was like at 15x? Are you talking about profit %?
     
    #35     May 22, 2019
  6. dozu888

    dozu888

    https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=aapl

    take these with some salt lol but shouldnt be too far off.. the forward p/e is 14.61 so 1/14.61 is 6.8% the forward earning yield.

    http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3021-peyield.html

    here you get the forward p/e of the indexes, and you can calculate the forward earning yield.

    I don't care about the divs.... recent years the trend has been moving away from divs in favor of buy backs, because of the tax defer (share holders would need to pay tax on divs, but buy backs just push up the share price, which means capital gains only when you sell).
     
    #36     May 22, 2019
    RGLD likes this.
  7. RGLD

    RGLD

    Dude, about what you said before, I doubt 99% of the people walking around know about the borrowing and buy backs.. Only "sophisticated" investors know. Even the technical traders wouldn't know. It's all great, but now I'm looking for the short.

    And thanks for the answers, you're the best. I do take Finviz with a grain of salt as their P/E's are off for some stocks, so why would I believe other info is accurate.
     
    #37     May 22, 2019
  8. ironchef

    ironchef

    Nothing to do with Lefty or Righty. Bush, Obama and now Trump are using us savers to bail out the speculators since 2008-09.
     
    #38     May 22, 2019
    dozu888 and murray t turtle like this.
  9. ironchef

    ironchef

    Long bond, long corporate bond yields are still at or near historical low. Companies that have plenty of free cash flow would be foolish not to load up on low cost loans.

    It is like if you can afford to, you should refinance your home at a 30 year fixed rate mortgage at rate below 3.5% a few years back. It is like free money after factoring inflation. The only time in recent memory us mom and pop retails got a break.
     
    #39     May 22, 2019
  10. RGLD

    RGLD

    What's the big deal if these "shadow banks" go under? These are just speculative business right? So why does government need to help them? In 2008, the banks that provide liquidity was in trouble. But these are just private businesses.
     
    #39     May 22, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  11. %%
    And like Jim Rogers noted ,[paraphrase] long fund managers start yellin' @ fed head Yellin; most likely same with J Powell. Don't fight the fed; unless its like 2008 + surprise rate cut means not much + downtrend resumes.LOL:D:D, :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
    #40     May 22, 2019