Anyone pulling money out of MF Global?

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by Daal, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. benwm

    benwm

    So for the accounts that face margin calls this week you're saying they'll basically be liquidated and it has nothing to do with your account? I suppose you're right in theory.

    If there was a rogue position that sent the overall balance into the red, would any customers get paid out? I guess you'd then find out how segregated the customer accounts really were. Customer accounts are not even properly segregrated from MF Global accounts, so I'm not sure intra-customer segregration is something you can be 100% sure of either.

    But it's probably 90%+ likely you'll get 70%+ of the account balance back, if I had to bet on it.
     
    #121     Nov 2, 2011
  2. benwm

    benwm

    A little more clarity (it seems any liquidation will not occur this week, it will begin Monday for positions not transferred):-
    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...00-million-cftc-says?category=/news/mostread/

    MF Global Inc.’s commodity customer funds have a shortfall of $633 million, or about 11.6 percent, out of a segregated fund requirement of about $5.4 billion, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission said.

    At a hearing today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, lawyers for the CFTC said the trustee for the bankrupt broker- dealer may recover the shortfall.

    MF Global’s trustee won permission to transfer 50,000 accounts where customers of the failed brokerage have 3 million positions and over $100 million at stake, saying the move will help avoid liquidations.

    James Kobak, a lawyer for trustee James W. Giddens said the accounts, which are at CME Group Inc., will be transferred with 60 percent collateral, leaving 40 percent with the clearing organization. Asking for the transfer of segregated customer positions, he said he was acting on the advice of the CFTC.

    “MF Global will have rights to that 40 percent, and there may be rights the exchange itself will assert,” Kobak said. He said the trustee is also seeking other exchanges like CME to transfer customer accounts. David Neier, a lawyer for IntercontinentalExchange Inc., said his client also has MF Global accounts at stake.

    Accounts that aren’t transferred will be liquidated, in an orderly fashion, beginning Monday, Kobak said. If former MF Global customers’ accounts are transferred, they’ll be notified by the following day, and can transfer again if they’re not happy with their assignment, Kobak said.

    The trustee, James Giddens, has said he froze 150,000 customer accounts, including 50,000 commodities accounts, on Oct. 31 at the broker-dealer once run by former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) executive Jon Corzine.

    MF Global Holdings Ltd., the brokerage’s parent, filed for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan on Oct. 31 after making bets on European sovereign debt. Giddens is tasked with liquidating MF’s broker-dealer unit for the Securities Investor Protection Corp. to protect customer assets.

    More than one firm would have to be found to take over the accounts, as none of the existing 125 futures commission merchants “would be willing and able to handle the variety of accounts” at MF Global, Giddens said, citing advice from CME Group Inc., which operates a derivatives exchange. The trustee is still looking for takers to accept all the accounts, his lawyer said in court today.

    ‘Over-Collateralized’

    Separately, CME said today that MF Global’s customer accounts on the group’s exchanges are “substantially over- collateralized” at CME Clearing. The funds CME wanted transferred to futures merchants are segregated funds held by MF Global, it said in a statement today.

    MF Global’s deposits of segregated customer funds at the CME totaled $2.5 billion, the trustee said. Collateral for customer segregated funds at the “clearing level” is about $1.5 billion, or about 60 percent, he said.

    Referring to an “apparent shortfall” in segregated customer funds at the broker-dealer, CME said the funds may have been transferred after a CME audit of the funds, in violation of regulatory rules.

    “It now appears that the firm made subsequent transfers of customer segregated funds in a manner that may have been designed to avoid detection,” as the transactions weren’t reported to regulators until Oct. 31, it said.

    Lehman Brothers

    Stephen Harbeck, president of the Securities Investor Protection Corp., said transferring the accounts is a priority. He compared the situation with the liquidation of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s brokerage.

    Barclays Plc, based in London, took over accounts from Lehman, giving 72,000 brokerage customers access to $40 billion in frozen assets. With MF Global, discrepancies in funds used to back futures trades sent Interactive Brokers Group Inc. fleeing from a potential acquisition, according to a board member at the Greenwich, Connecticut, firm.

    “With Lehman, the day SIPC filed the liquidation proceeding, we executed a transfer agreement with Barclays,” Harbeck said. “This time it won’t be that fast.”

    Updates on Giddens’s progress will appear on a website set up for the purpose, mfglobaltrustee.com, the trustee said.
     
    #122     Nov 2, 2011
  3. 89% is already available. The CME already has the margin money ($2.5 bill), and will automatically liquidate if they fall under. So no one should be underwater now, maybe wiped out.
     
    #123     Nov 2, 2011
  4. benwm

    benwm

    Relevant for non-US customers:-
    Source: http://www.futuresmag.com/News/2011/11/Pages/NonUS-MF-Global-positions-wound-down-.aspx

    While U.S. customers of MF Global are still basically frozen out or on liquidation-only awaiting word from the bankruptcy judge and CME Group, MF Global’s designated self regulatory organization (DSRO), non-U.S. exchanges have begun liquidating positions after shuddering MF Global’s business.

    Eurex Clearing announced today that it has successfully wound down its clearing member MF Global UK Limited (MF Global). According to Eurex, MF Global had entered Special Administration Regime on Monday, Oct, 31, as confirmed by its regulator, the Financial Services Authority (FSA).

    On Nov. 1, Eurex Clearing terminated the clearing agreement with MF Global, triggering the liquidation of corresponding positions at Eurex Clearing. Eurex noted that the exposure of those positions had been covered by MF Global collateral and there was no need to draw on the Clearing Fund. The collateral backing those positions will be returned to MF Global UK Ltd., which is being administrated by accounting firm KPGM.

    ”The implemented safeguards of Eurex Clearing have again proven to be effective, and underline our high standards in risk management. In this critical situation," said Thomas Book, member of the Eurex Executive Board, responsible for clearing.

    An interesting side note is that in August Eurex Clearing began offering its “Individual Clearing Model,” where non-clearing members of Eurex could have their capital segregated separately from their clearing firm. In this instance such a firm could have had their collateral separately segregated and could have moved it to another clearing member after the MF Global bankruptcy. However, a Eurex spokesman says that no entity that cleared MF Global took advantage of this model.

    In Australia, Deloitte Partners were appointed voluntary administrators of MF Global Australian entities, including MF Global Australia Limited, MF Global Securities Australia Limited and Brokerone Pty Limited. The administrators have taken control of the companies and all of their operations.

    Further ASX advised the administrators and the companies that all clearing and settlement activities have been suspended with effect from the appointment and the companies can not trade any ASX markets.

    Administrator Chris Campbell said in a release, “We have taken control of the assets of the three companies and begun the task of assessing the positions of each, including their OTC derivative positions. “We are commencing a process to reconcile all client positions as at the date of appointment to determine monies owed to each client. This will also include the necessary close out of most, if not all client positions.”

    In other ASX news, the Financial Times reported that trading resumed today in its agricultural and wool markets. Trading had been suspended in these markets on Tuesday due to the MF Global bankruptcy as MF Global accounted for a majority of the market share in these contracts according to the FT, including 80% of the wool contract.

    On Monday NYSE.Liffe U.S. suspended access to its markets by MF Global and its customers. Earlier in the day they placed MF Global positions on “liquidation only.”
     
    #124     Nov 2, 2011
  5. heech

    heech

    I don't think there has ever been a promise of segregating customer futures accounts from each other. I don't think that has ever existed. I always thought that was a reason to stay away from the really small FCMs... Am I wrong?
     
    #125     Nov 2, 2011
  6. Biog

    Biog

    Well, as my wife keeps telling me...bigger is not always better. Given Refco and now MFglobal, it seems that might be true with FCMs too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refco

    Refco was a New York-based financial services company, primarily known as a broker of commodities and futures contracts. It was founded in 1969 as "Ray E. Friedman and Co." Prior to its collapse in October, 2005, the firm had over $4 billion in approximately 200,000 customer accounts, and it was the largest broker on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.


    As of August, MF Global was the eighth largest FCM based on customer segregated funds of $7.2 billion according to CFTC data.
     
    #126     Nov 2, 2011
  7. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...e-to-modify-transfer-order-to-allow-cash.html

    This is what I mentioned earlier about it being unclear if all cash accounts were going to be transferred. The language of the court order is ambiguous at best, talking about transferring 'positions'. Of course being flat is a position. And they keep talking about all 50000 accounts being transferred.

    The press is doing a terrible job of covering this, and the trustee website raises more questions than it answers.
     
    #127     Nov 3, 2011
  8. benwm

    benwm

    Four days after bankruptcy and the open futures positions and associated risk remain, eh?

    And yet you cannot close out the positions and don't know if the cash portion of your futures account will still exist in a weeks time.

    A nightmare for MF Global customers.

    Meanwhile, the Judge tries to get up to speed, reading his copy of Market Wizards in between court appearances...
     
    #128     Nov 3, 2011
  9. Yes... a nightmare is putting it lightly when you have a very large account there. Please keep posting more info as it comes in. Thanks

    That EMC guy only has 930k... Anyone know his attorney?
     
    #129     Nov 3, 2011
  10. benwm

    benwm

    Michael T. Conway ?
    http://www.leclairryan.com/michael-t-conway/
    Email is michael.conway@leclairryan.com if it is the same guy.

    Here is the info from MGF Trustee site:-
    http://dm.epiq11.com/MFG/docket/Default.aspx?rc=1

    To be clear, this is not a recommendation on my part, I don't know Mr Conway! I just googled.. Buy me a drink if you get your money back!
     
    #130     Nov 3, 2011