So let me understand this fully, because I just look at the charts when I trade. A big guy flashes up 50,000 shares on the ask at say 50.20, and there is not much on the Bid at say 50.18. So when they pop up with that 50,000 shares, they want everyone to start selling, so that the person flashing the 50k shares can buy up everything to people who are panicing to sell. Then once they do that, they remove the 50k shares and drive the price up? Is that basically how this works, and vice-versa? Is that basically what they are trying to accomplish? If it is, then I think I got it, if not, then, well I don't know much about using the Level 2 which is why I have been sending people PM's on the subject to learn.
Makes sense, so it is automated systems that are doing this many times a day, essentially, really scalping in it's true form. Hopefully it already happens on the stocks I trade: AAPL, NEM, OIH, GOOG, VLO, GS, X, and others, so I don't have to worry about it. I like it how it is.
basically yes,, but there manipulation doesnt make them god in the stock, unless its thin and there the only big guy there,, so they follow the direction the stock wants to go,, and just aid it in its journey..
So when they say 70% - 80% of the volume on NYSE and all the exchanges is bots, is this basically what they are referring to as happening a lot of the time?
I know human traders have been putting up fake size on the bid/offer during slow trading times but once it gets actively moving towards the size its canceled, but lately on the stocks I trade its been totally different blackbox programs have been coming out of the woodwork trying to push the market around with lightning orders in the open book flashing all over the place even the specialist will show his bid/offer and only a little will print and then the rest is pulled. This week I've seen it taken to the next level in what I'm trading at least. Just study them and learn to play with or around them they're very obvious when they come out to play and when they know to back off
as far as i know , the automated preference the exchanges were referring to were in relation to the amount of traders following a specific system on signals and what not,, but you have to keep in mind the amount of auto systems that hedge funds, or hedge lovers use,, in relation to inter traded stocks on separate currencies from t.o to nyse,, etc.... ps: if you think im full of it,, and this is all a conspiracy of automated trading with the manipulation your seeing,, well you have to look outside of the box,, and realize that some traders are just way beyond our comprehension of success,, im decent,, i just dont have the balls,, they do... ball brains discipline... imo , thats all you need.
You know whats fucked up though, I noticed a pattern the other day and there was about 10k of offers lined up and I knew they were gonna be pulled so before it looked like the bids would gun for the fake offers, I sent a 3K buy market order. the fucker (WHR) holds my order and lets all the "offers" get pulled so i wouldnt get filled so i had to cancel my order. even when you try to take advantage sometimes, you cant win. needless to say the stock shot up .25 cents with all kinds of bids so it would have easily been like a $500-$700 trade for a mins worth of work
i respect your reply mizer,, but to use this in reference to the others on this thread,, black box or not,,, if you put out an order you always take risk of getting filled,, i can put out an order,, and hit escape the same milli second,,, i take risk,, but i look for reward.. the key to these big guys is to know how to work out of there order if they get filled when they didnt want to,,, the specialist matches orders right,, hes human right? well,, you can slip things quickly past him,, if your lucky,, with good skill to back it up./................................
Play the range.... As was said earlier......Go with what is happening.....if the range is 15 cents then take the middle 10 cents and make it yours.... When you see the offer flip to the bid....hammer into a long and put out your offer 10 cents right away......and vice versa. If they jump and try to push the stock the other way before the price has the chance to hit your exit then hammer yourself out for the few pennies profit.... I was watching GFI for the last few days and saw the spike chart. I have been trading GFI this way....Some joker is piling 50k bid then up 15 cents....then he flips and it comes back down....this happens in light trading. They can never get away with this on liquid stocks as 50k will be a minor stumble and the big fish becomes a guppy. Take advantage when you see these situations and be quick on the keys. Hope that helps.