Ah, excellent, a result on the elliptical question. Pound the rock, comments from the REAL fitness thread, "anyone workout in here" "Ellipticals are good, but the interval and hill programs are a must, unless you want to be a cardio gerbil." This sounds encouraging, for my afforementioned requirements. Not a stair climber ( can be hell on bad knees), not an exercise bike,(burn more cals standing, and midsection gets little work)) not a rower,(neck/upper back extreme pain from spinal/shoulder problems ) and not jogging, or swimming, and you can do it at home, crucially important for me. Excellent, and as the guru says, anything that isnt sitting on your butt is helpfull. I dont want to be a gerbil, rented, pounded , cardio or otherwise, but this sounds reasonably encouraging.