Anyone daytrade or swingtrade ES options?

Discussion in 'Options' started by increasenow, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. Anyone daytrade or swingtrade ES options?for daytrading...seems they would not move enough...swingtrading seems more logical?
  2. Don't go there, please!

    I trade SP and ES futires and have looked at this --- better trade the underlying futures (Sp, ND and mini), or options on the ETFs.
  3. why do you say this?...honestly?
  4. 1) You'll have to contend with "wide" bid-ask spreads.
    2) You'll have to contend with the "greeks" in addition to underlying price movement.
    3) Swing trading would be slightly better than daytrading.
  5. reply to point #1-I dis-agree, I've seen the live feed...very tight spreads of .25 to .50...just like the ES futures...agree that swing is better...

    what about a at the money straddle?
  6. 1) The farther-out-of-the-money an option is, the more underlying price movement you'll need to get movement in the option premium because of the progressively smaller option delta.
    2) A 1-tick spread in the futures is not the same as a 1-tick spread in an options quote. An at-the-money option with a delta of ~0.50 requires atleast 4 or 5 ticks of price movement to shift the bid & ask.
    3) The reciprocal of delta is a measure of the "wideness" of an option quote, all other things being equal.
  7. actually I'm trading ES options and cash ES as swing trades. I like the ES options better than SPX option (pit)trading. If you do it in regular trading hours you get decent fills. NQ's are a bit different...thinner market (futures options) was wondering if many people are trading them. ES options have quite a bit of volume, I also like the span margin so you can short calls/puts do ratio spreads then leg into B-flys much easier than with SPX.
  8. in every scenario if I write/short ES calls or ES puts do I need to have the full overnight margin in my account per each contract I short? there anything that exempts me from having to put up the whole overnnight margin if I short/write an ES call or put?...also, would the premium paid me for that short/write factor in immediatelly?
  9. Increase...the margin part is very tricky. With standard options its easily figured out and fixed. With futures options yes you do have to have the full overnite margin and your premium does go toward it.

    HOWEVER this margin can and does change depending on volatility and direction. Especially if you are holding ES overnite since it is marked to market your cash situation changes. You need to trade ES options VERY.. VERY small until you understand what can and will happen.

    I can't figure out the exact margin on my platform (TOS) so I just make sure I keep lots of cash in my account!!!!!!!!! or at least try to and stay very vigilant and cover my a$$ as quickly as posible. I did experience a margin call back in July when we tanked but by the end of the day there was no need to cover as the market sufficiently recovered...I try to stay pretty close to delta neutral, thats why I use the cash to hedge but try to only day trade the ES in the direction of the imbalance of the deltas. IOW if I'm net negative the I'll go long on long signals...if I'm net positive I'll look for a short signal.
  10. thanks a lot...Q1-would a far, really far sold ES option out of the money option need the full futures contract overnight margin to hold the position?I would think not...would it not be much less?Q2-what if I bought one call and sold another?..would the huge margin be required?...I guess what I want to know is that for selling ES options...that the full ES futures contract overnight margin IS NOT required...should be much less...especially for way out of the money options sold...can you help?
    #10     Aug 30, 2008