Anybody Trade from Monaco's Monte Carlo ?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by BlueStreek, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. Expensive to live is my first impression, but no individual income taxes.

    The climate seems moderate from th 40`s to 80`s.

    I have never visited this area, any impressions from those who have?
  2. More than a few successful traders I know live in Monaco. Monaco real estate is among one of the most expensive in the world (roughly 2x Manhattan prices by my estimate), so a 2 bedroom apt would run you a min of 2-2.5M Euro. But on the flip side, the moment you own property in Monaco, you are grated residency rights (for as long as you own property, of course). Weather is tropical, and the ocean breeze is quite nice in the afternoon and evenings.

    A significantly cheaper alternative is Gibraltar, it is fairly easy to gain residency there, and the income tax treatment is fairly minimal (but there *is* an income tax).

    Just as an aside, if you are US citizen, you will be liable to play US federal income taxes, regardless where your residency is.
  3. My wife's sister and her husband live there. The weather is nice and it's a very exciting place to live. We visited them last year and stayed in their 950 square-foot 2bed/2bath condo that they paid $3.5M for. I thought where we live in Southern California is expensive. It's nothing compared to Monaco.

    My sister-in-law and her husband are Australian citizens and don't have to pay taxes to Australia as non-residents (unlike US citizens, where the IRS follows you wherever you go).

  4. syspool


    Most people looking for zero taxes rent and don't buy. Real estate prices have doubled from 2003 to 2008 and have increased another 20% since then. One can rent a simple studio for about EUR 1'000 per month, including all the charges that comes to about $ 15'000 per year. A decent 2-room with some view comes to about EUR 30'000.

    If as a trader you make >EUR 100k p.a., which would probably put you in the top tax bracket in you present country, you break even with living in Monaco. If you make more, you are well ahead.

    Actually living in Monaco is not everybody's thing. Many have a nicer place outside of MC in France for everyday life. But living in the area is great; nice climate all year round, good food, lots of culture, lots of expats to mingle with and one can get around well with english language only.

  5. I have noticed that some of the poker pro`s like Gus Hansen and Patrick Antonius (sp) have relocated there from Scandinavian countries......I think some of the European Tennis Pros did likewise for tax purposes.

    Yeah, I looked at a couple of the apartment/condos for rent and sale, and they are small, very modern, and expensive from a square footage perspective.

    I think they generate most of their tax revenue from a VAT tax, which I guess is a consumption tax, and then taxes on businesses.

    Do they have any social problems, strife of any kind that bubbles under the surface?
  6. Ash1972


    I've heard that native Monegasques are a mere 20% of the population, and most of them are in social housing due to the price of real estate being forced up by foreign demand. However, they are very well looked after with W European style welfare, free healthcare etc.

    Curiously, Monaco is Europe's last absolute monarchy but there is no pro democrary movement to speak of. The Prince must be doing a fine job!

  7. Not trading related but you asked for "any impressions from visitors"

    Did 2-week trips to Monte Carlo 4 times/year (by car or plane) to stay with long-time girlfriend when I lived short-term in Sweden and Germany quite a while back. Still visit her 1-2/year - platonically :) She has several properties but one in particular, on a whim I went in halves with her - entirely in her name, for investment purposes. On the first of every month my half of the rental income arrives in my account. Never missed a beat. I don't ask about selling because she is in that business, so knows best - it will be a nice chunk of change when sold.

    Its a beautiful place, very nice people of sooo many nationalities but the real fun and beauty is in getting there by car - and then driving beyond into Sorrento and Amalfi. The 900 klick trip from Paris to Nice has gotta be the ultimate drive for a Porsche lover - never ever got stopped by the cops. I miss that as now its usually flying in and out when I visit.

    The entire drive from Nice to Marseille is breathtaking.

    I couldn't live there continuously, but for refreshing visits its second to none.

    Its not even on this list for most expensive places to live ...
  8. AK100


    Somerset Maugham summed it up pefectly -

    "a sunny place for shady people”

    There's a lot of really nasty nouveau trash there. However, if you're the type of person that looks up to rich people only because they're rich and vice-versa with poor people then it's a good place.

    Otherwise I'd go about 10-30 miles northwest away from the coast as it's stunning and with the class that Monaco lost a long time ago. You know the kind people that wouldn't be seen dead in a vulgar red Ferrari......
  9. i'll be in st tropez from 15 till 30 sept.
    if anyone wants to have a beer with me, give me a shout.
  10. imc


    Monaco would be a terrific place to live and trade from. My brother lived in a small apartment there for several years.

    What I noticed about Monaco was there was no graffiti anywhere, unlike most other cities in Europe (Italy!)

    There is a small town along the coast called Menton which if I had a choice I would live there as the property prices would be more affordable.

    I drove from Monaco through Nice down to Cannes during August in a hired SLK convertible. Memorable.
    #10     Sep 10, 2010