I concur. Thank you for elaborating my stance on opiates rather than psychotropic drugs. And I should've used the words opiate derivatives or opiate prescriptions.
I am not trying to be omniscient on this topic, but I believe opiates ( as well as many others things to a lesser degree) are psychotropic. Any drug which can change the way you feel, affect your behavior or emotions would be considered psychotropic. Opiates, whether in pain or not, make me feel very pleasant, so I think they are psychotropic. A good steak dinner can make me feel relaxed and content or even a little euphoric (that food high feeling), and as such food contains small amounts of psychotropic substances too. Just about anything we put in our body has an affect on the mind to some degree. In the sister thread to this thread I posted an article which is incredibly fascinating. I suggest all who are interested in the mind, moods and our neurochemical makeup, and the desire, whether by individuals to self-medicate to stop pain by using illicit or illegal drugs, or by pharmaceutical companies to come up with a magic bullet antidepressant, should read this article. www.biopsychiatry.com In much more depth it puts forth a theory that the reason many people are depressed (or even not happy everyday) has a lot to do with evolution. 10,000 years ago, if humans (or their ancestors) did not have worry or anxiety about things, we would have died out long ago. However, since we (or the vast majority of us), do not need this level or worry and stress anymore since (i) we have all that we need to survive without hunting for it, and (ii) we don't need to fear on a daily basis that we will be eaten by a predator (that is unless you are trading poorly ), this worry/fear treadmill needs to be stopped as it is very detrimental in the world we live in today. It basically asks the question, is pain (mental) ever necessary anymore? If you were given the option to genetically alter the DNA of your fetus (or the one your wife is carrying) so that that child would never suffer mental anguish, would you do that?
pscyhotropic, my dictionary doesn't have one. Thank you for using the word omniscient, I've only read it one other time other than in my own work. About the word psychotropic, I think you're correct that opium derivitives are pscyhotropic drugs, and thank you for informing me of my mistake. Omniscience is one of my goals. I think that ten years of college and 1000 books read will make me an omniscient. I've completed about 2 years of college and about 170 worthwhile books. About your last paragraph. Is pain necessary: is happiness and comfort your goal? I would always want a myriad of emotions, life is boring enough with such a limited amount of modes of experiece. Happiness isn't my goal. I aesthetically, and for other reasons, think emotions are primitive, and so how could I make happiness my goal? My goal is to achieve an unique thought or thoughts. I want to descibe the innefible, I want to elaborate on the idea of experiences that humans are incapabe of having. We experience everything through mental processes, what is beyond thought? Surely there must be a life form that experiences things beyond thought ,or in a more sophisticated way than thinking. The brain is too earthly, and though I've written thinking (and every thing) off as being below me, I obviously haven't yet mastered the English language. Everything is symbolic, and the symbols are banal. Demonet:"I am not trying to be omniscient on this topic". Then please do try to be. I would like to know what you really think.
I just said that because I didn't want to sound like I was correcting everyone. Nobody likes those who claim they know all. Regarding pain...yes that is a common response to that theory. People will say "without pain we would have no great music or art, etc."....perhaps. But while we agree it is part of the human experience, I do not think that said experience need be repeated for every new arrival on earth ad infinitum like some kind of existential fraternity where you need to suffer to be part of the group. IPeople can look back and say "I am better/stronger because of it", but how many would say...."hmmm I liked what I gained, I think I would like to do it again"....People only romanticize pain when its in hindsight. You have no possible comprehension (but then neither do I), that without mental anguish our race would somehow lose something.
I disagree with you on the pain issue. The modes for experiencing life are too few already. I wouldn't want to go without pain. Maybe you have terrible pain so you can't agree with this or maybe you utterly can't withstand pain. I think of pain as part of the raaaiiiiinbooooow of liiiiiiiife. Without pain pleasure is something else. I would like to experience life without pain for a few years maybe, but just for the philosphical enlightment that would be garnered from the experience, not because I dislike pain.
Is this statement borne of the facts? Don't be pickin on us mountain men, we got moonshine - we don't need opiates! All jokes aside - I have chronic pain - 24/7/365 - I sleep very little. I take prescribed medication - hydrocodone: generic version of loretab. (opiate) I dislike it, but I dislike the pain even more. I don't even begin to try to become pain free with the pills. I use enough to make it bearable, that's it. (often break them in half) Bearable still hurt's quite a bit. If I start to feel sorry for myself - I take the time to ponder the situation of Chris Reeve.www.christopherreeve.com I think that this man would love to have my pain. He can't even rub his eye if it itches. The way I see it, if this man can deal with his situation and maintain a positive outlook then surely I can, too. Even though I believe that it's important for me not to deny my pain or my feelings about it (even though it's tough), it just doesn't compare to what many others go through. Therefore, I can grin and bear it much of the time. When I can't, I do have the pills. I have been concerned about the effects of long term usage.(I've had to take them for several years) However, even though this statement probably sounds addictive - I don't know what I would do without them at times. I'm hurting right now - I've been awake since 6:30 am tuesday morning - it has now been about 22 hours. This is not unusual for me. As a matter of fact it's typical - I will go to sleep when I'm completely exhasted (maybe). Sometimes this can take up to two days.(even then I typically sleep only 2 - 4 hours and I'm awake again) But I can still walk and I can still do physical things. My back is the primary culprit and it usually doesn't hurt any worse to lift something, at least not when I'm lifting it. It can and will hurt more for several days afterward, depending on what I did today. Most of the time my hands, legs, and ankles hurt as well. I think that's just arthritis. Growing older is not for sissies I like to laugh and cut up quite a bit - I figure that at least half (most likely way more than that) of my life has passed by. The heck with spending the rest of it being bitter. Besides being bitter takes too much effort and they don't call me plumlazy for nothing. Best regards!
I have had a lot of trouble "feeling good" throughout my life. I have been diagnosed as depressed, but I am not so sure I am not ADD/ADHD. But I am off of medication and at 46 I have never felt better in my life, I am I can count on feeling good everyday. Excercise (lots of it), sleep, relationships, and the reason for this post; The Zone Diet. The most important thing is diet, and the Zone Diet will do just that, keep you in the Zone. You can get a copy of one of the books at your local used book store, or go to drsears.com to find out about it. The easiest thing to do is to download the Food Block Guide. Basically, you stay in The Zone by managing your blood sugar and insulin levels. Try it for a week and you will see. Unlike other diets, it is not high or low anything, it is about the proper amounts of fat, protien, and carbs, in the proper ratio, from high quality sources. Gary
[SORRY ABOUT THE FOLLOWING, I KNOW IT IS A LITTLE OFF-TOPIC] STOP IT!!!! You can be pain free. Stop being a martyr...or if you not trying to be a martyr, don't fall for the myths!!! Find a courageous doctor (there are plenty). Get a proper prescription to alleviate most or all of that pain. [I don't know....maybe you are one of those people who enjoys getting fillings at the dentist without any lidocaine. If so, more power to you!] I do not know what type of pain you are in or what condition you suffer from. BUT, I can guarantee with 99% certainty, that if you found a doctor to prescribe oxycontin to you in an amount you felt was most effective, you could be virtually pain free. Again, I get vehement and angry about these myths and feel sorry for people like you who are made to either feel guilty about taking "pills" like your ineffective Schedule 3 analgesic, or believe that they will suffer some form of harmful effect. DON'T FEEL GUILTY....PAIN IS NOW A VITAL SIGN. AND ALSO, BE SMART....DON'T BELIEVE THE MEDIA....THEY ARE LYING.... Remember this, please, please remember this: THERE ARE NO SHORT TERM, LONG TERM, OR ANY SIGNIFICANT NEGATIVE HEALTH EFFECTS WHATSOEVER FROM TAKING OPIATES!!!!!!! READ THAT STATEMENT AGAIN AND COMMIT IT TO MEMORY. Yes, there are a few caveats: (i) if you are taking an opiate which is a combination of the opiate and either ibuprofen or--even worse--acetaminophen, be careful, you can die from tylenol !!! Of course the Government/FDA/pharm companies won't tell you that (except in very small print, if at all)! At least fatal dosages of opiates usually have to be very deliberate (or some fool mixed them with liquor). Most of the time people who recreationally take too many lortab/norco/vicodin (all the same thing, i.e. a combination of hydrocodone and APAP), die from the toxicity to the liver as a result of the tylenol. Again I will ask you the question: Honestly, if you could trade your current existence for a 98% pain free existence--with the VERY SLIGHT POSSIBILITY that you will become physically dependent on the drug which alleviates your pain, would you do that? Nobody who knew the facts and the truth would say no to the above question. I am not saying opiates are 100% risk free, but getting in a car is not 100% risk free. It annoys me so much that this country treates opiates like something from hell--an evil substance-- when in fact it is one the greatest gifts we could have!! Opiate analgesics could bring freedom and comfort to millions if they were given access to them. But there are too many fears that are just downright unfounded. Now I am speaking about opiates as an analgesic, but to take it further, why is it illegal??? Look at poor Rush (who I generally disagree with politically)...should the ENTIRE COUNTRY really be that concerned that he took some opiate medications? What did he really do wrong???? Here is what he did: he did his radio show, he came home, he got his buzz from a couple of pills, fell asleep, and then came to work the next day!!! How did that hurt anyone??? It didn't even hurt him!!! Yes, maybe he developed an addiction and maybe he in order to stop taking the opiates he will have to go through the minor discomfort of withdrawals for 7 days, but otherwise, there is nothing that he did wrong. Nothing unhealthy, and nothing wrong (unless you consider our laws truth). But of course, what could be really harmful to Rush is jail time. Rush could easily die in jail if he got sent there. Much higher probability of harmful effects from jail over opiates...does that make any f*ckin' sense to you? So I can almost hear you and others thinking "heresy! heroin is an opiate and heroin will kill you very very easily". THIS IS A BIG LIE! Nearly all the supposed harmful effects associated with drugs (including heroin and other opiates) are due to the fact that they are illegal. Contaminants, uncertainties in dose of street drugs, or dangerous combinations of drugs are responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, just as contaminated illegal alcohol killed many people during Prohibition. For example, adulterated heroin containing 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP) has induced numerous cases of nerve degeneration, Parkinson's disease, and eventual death (Langston JW et al: Evidence of active nerve cell degeneration in the substantia nigra of humans years after 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine exposure. Annals of Neurology. 46:598-605, 1999). What is reported as heroin or narcotics overdose is usually the result of impurities in street drugs or the combination of a narcotic with another drug. See Next Post....(its the best part)
For an unbiased review of drugs, see the Consumer Reports book on drugs, which was written with the collaboration of a score of doctors and scientists who are experts in the field: _Licit and Illicit Drugs_. EM Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports. Mount Vernon, NY: Consumers Union. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm Here are some excepts about heroin (this is the real truth, not the media hype and lies perpetuated by those who profit rom the drug war (the DEA)): "Almost all the deleterious effects ordinarily attributed to the opiates, indeed, appear to be the effects of the narcotics laws instead." (Chap. 4) "Individuals may take morphine or some other opiate for twenty years or more without showing intellectual or moral deterioration." (Chap. 4) "Organic deterioration...is unknown with opiates." (Chap. 4) "There is thus general agreement throughout the medical and psychiatric literature that the overall effects of opium, morphine, and heroin on the addict's mind and body under conditions of low price and ready availability are on the whole amazingly bland." (Chap. 4) "The thousands of deaths attributed to heroin overdose are not in fact due to heroin overdose at all." (Chap. 12) "A conscientious search of the United States medical literature throughout recent decades has failed to turn up a single scientific paper reporting that heroin overdose, as established by these or any reasonable methods of determining overdose, is in fact a cause of death among American heroin addicts." (Chap. 12) "Dr. George B. Wallace summed up both studies [in Philadelphia and Bellevue Hospital in New York City]: 'It was shown that continued taking of opium or any of its derivatives resulted in no measurable organic damage. The addict when not deprived of his opium showed no abnormal behavior which distinguished him from a non-addict.' 'Since these studies appeared,' Dr. Harris Isbell, director of the Public Health Service's Addiction Research Center in Lexington, pointed out in 1958, 'it has not been possible to maintain that addiction to morphine causes marked physical deterioration per se.'" (Chap. 4) Dr. Walter G. Karr, a University of Pennsylvania biochemist: "The addict under his normal tolerance of morphine is medically a well man." Dr. Nathan B. Eddy, after reviewing the world literature on morphine, concluded similarly: "Given an addict who is receiving [adequate] morphine ... the deviations from normal physiological behavior are minor [and] for the most part within the range of normal variations." --In: Opiate Addiction. Evanston, IL: Principia Press. "The study shows that morphine addiction is not characterized by physical deterioration or impairment of physical fitness...There is no evidence of change in the circulatory, hepatic, renal, or endocrine functions. When it is considered that these subjects had been addicted for at least five years, some of them for as long as twenty years, these negative observations are highly significant." --Arthur B. Light and Edward G. Torrance, Opium Addiction (Chicago: American Medical Association). Henry Brill of the New York State Department of Mental Hygiene, chairman of the American Medical Association's narcotics committee, after a survey of 35,000 mental hospital patients, summarized the data in these terms: "In spite of a very long tradition to the contrary, clinical experience and statistical studies clearly prove that psychosis is not one of 'the pains of addiction.' Organic deterioration is regularly produced by alcohol in sufficient amount but is unknown with opiates. (Brill H. Misapprehensions about drug addiction: some opiates and repercussions. Comprehensive Psychiatry. 4:155, June 1963.) "...taking of narcotics results in no measurable organic damage." Monson, M. C.. The dirty little secret behind our drug laws. (Reason, November 1980, p. 51). Reprinted in Drugs, Volume 3. (Boca Raton, Fla: Social Issues Resources Series, Inc., 1980), Article No. 19. Before narcotics and other drugs were criminalized beginning with the Harrison Act of 1914, drug users, including addicts, generally led normal productive lives as ordinary citizens. "Six weeks after the Harrison Act went into effect, the New York Medical Journal carried an ominous observation: 'The immediate effects of the Harrison antinarcotic law were seen in...sporadic crimes of violence, due to desperate efforts by addicts to obtain drugs...The really serious results of this legislation will...be the failure of promising careers, the disruption of happy families, the commission of crimes which will never be traced to their true cause, and the influx into hospitals for the mentally disordered of many who would otherwise live socially competent lives.' " --New York Medical Journal, quoted in _Drug Crazy_, Mike Gray, New York: Random House, 1998. Dr. Charles Terry, city health officer for Jacksonville, FL, wrote, "One of the most important discoveries we made at that time was that a very large proportion [82%] of the users of opiate drugs were respectable hardworking individuals in all walks of life." Charles E Terry, "Narcotic Drug Addiction and Rational Administration," American Medicine 26 (January 1920) pp 29-35. One remarkable case was Dr. William Stewart Halsted (1852-1922), one of the greatest of American surgeons and one of the founders of Johns Hopkins Medical School. "Halsted was a morphine addict at the age of thirty-four. He had never been able to reduce the amount [of morphine] to less than three grains [180 milligrams] daily; on this he could do his work comfortably and maintain his excellent physical vigor. While on morphine Halsted married into a distinguished Southern family; his wife had been head nurse in the operating rooms at the Hopkins. They lived together in "complete mutual devotion" until Halsted's death thirty-two years later. Halsted's skill and ingenuity as a surgeon during his years of addiction to morphine earned him national and international renown.... For pioneering improvements such as these, Halsted became widely known as "the father of modern surgery."
I think you should know that you seem a little too exuberant about your appreciation of opiates. It may be you're utterly addicted to oxy?