Any thoughts on the forthcoming State Street "ProFunds" ETFs?

Discussion in 'ETFs' started by Chagi, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. Chagi


    Was reading a bit about the concept behind them on, basically will be ETFs with two specific features: leverage, plus bull/bear friendly ETFs.

    The former aspect (the article called it double beta) is interesting, since it would provide an investment vehicle that is safer (less volatile) than trading index futures, but would provide more action than, say, QQQQs.

    The other really interesting aspect is that four of the funds are bull-oriented, other four are bear-oriented, apparently this will work out in a manner that you could go long the bear-oriented ETF and see capital gains if the market were to decrease. I'm intrigued to see exactly how the bear ETFs will be structured in order to pull this off...

    The combination of leverage and the ability to be long or short the market while technically only being long would be very interesting from the perspective of a self-directed retirement account.
  2. Yes;
    but want to see footprints on them as well as bid /ask,
    and volume before biting:cool:
  3. Good thread...please post what you know...anybody? and thanks Chagi for starting it...heck I don't need IBD or the Journal..just crank on ET and I can learn how to lose my money at a a slower pace :)
  4. Can you please post a link to the article?
  5. Let me be the first to say I would be very happy to see these funds come to market. As anyone who uses ProFunds or Rydex Inverse Funds in IRA or Retirement accounts knows the brokerage firms have used this as an opportunity to gouge in short term trading fees. The additional problem of having to open or close positions on the close is equally disturbing. Obviously there are alternatives by way of setting up an IRA trust to trade futures and/or opening accounts directly with Rydex or ProFunds to avoid the "mark up" and other misc. fees that brokerages impose, yet you often find that if/when you do this you sacrifice alot in terms of product availability.
  6. Chagi


    I hope these work, the MarketWatch links are pretty messy. Here they are, first article just mentions someone joining State Street, the second provides slightly more info, and the third article is the one that I was referencing in my original post:

    "ETF pioneer who left State Street joins ProFund - Kathie O'Donnell" -{FAB73CA9-0231-4358-A910-FC5A9549B392}&siteid=mktw

    "ProFund plans to offer two 'short' funds - Kathie O'Donnell" -{662C9057-2171-4798-823E-74780264793B}&siteid=mktw

    "ETF Focus: Key hire may signal ProFunds' entry into ETFs - John Spence" -{DFC76C70-4CEE-441C-A6CA-7EB355A9AC75}&siteid=mktw

    You also need to register at the MarketWatch site in order to read the full articles, but it's free to do so.

    The chart of a leveraged bear ETF would probably take a bit to get used to. :p
  7. Hmmm, interesting products...............Hopefully they'll make for good contrary indicators. High trading volume should occur at price extremes that correspond to the S&P and Dow Jones.
  8. NKNY


    Anyone know when these funds should be trading...?

  9. Chagi


    FYI - A few of these finally launched, first four are the "double beta" ETFs, next four are single beta inverse ETFs:

    Double Beta

    Ultra QQQ ProShares: QLD

    Ultra S&P 500 ProShares: SSO

    Ultra Dow 30 ProShares: DDM

    Ultra MidCap 400 ProShares: MVV

    Single Beta Inverse

    Short QQQ ProShares: PSQ

    Short S&P 500 ProShares: SH

    Short Dow 30 ProShares: DOG (this one is a cute choice of symbols hehe)

    Short MidCap 400 ProShares: MYY


    Volume on these ETFs is low thus far (particularly the inverse ETFs), but it's a start. I'm personally interested to see when/if the double beta inverse products obtain regulatory approval.

    P.S. If anyone can find more detailed info on these ETFs, please post a link here; I haven't been able to find anything yet on State Street's website.
  10. cknucks


    Great that these can be traded throughout the day. However, nothing beats the $2.40 that IB charges me for exposure to $60K or so of S&Ps. As for trading the vehichle in my 401K, unfortunately my account is with Schwab. Those c***suckers charge me $14 or so per ticket. [Aside: I work around the corner from their HQ, and they're can me every now and then for more business. They can burn in hell for the nickel and dime style fees they charge].

    So this prolly ain't for me.
    #10     Jul 3, 2006