Don's post about an Ivy Leaque education meaning crap holds more water than one might think. The market doesn't know who you are or where you went to school. We are all equal in the eyes of the market.
That's absolutely true. However, say you wanna go work for a bulge bracket investment bank then having an Ivy League education is an initial hurdle you'll have to overcome for filtering purposes, prestige vs clients, and so on. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but not all that many. Once in the market it really doesn't mean much, though, then it's having a feel or not having a feel for markets.
On a conciliatory note, I've gone through some of Don's posts and I like the fact that very often he tells it exactly as it is in the industry, as in self ordained gurus aka papertigers trying to sell get rich systems-websites-chats-books, and so on and so forth, showing the industry that makes its money through selling gold diggers equipment as opposed to digging for gold (trading) themselves for what it really is. And that's just great that he's doing that. Regards
"Are any prop firms hiring?" Answer is "no".... A couple of months back I inquired of our beloved "hitman" if in fact his firm was actually hiring any traders. Of course they were not...there are very few "paid" positions for traders of any calibre....just rewards for ability in trading. Thanks to those with words of support, and I don't mind the "spirited yet civil" discussions....but if we focus on trading better, and get past the "bad market" stuff, we should all do better. Let's go to the trading section, and join in with some stuff that's working...and if you are all making money (no matter where you trade)...we can all get along a lot better!! Peace!!
'Scuse me, it's just plain wrong to claim that no firms are hiring traders who can earn a very good comp package. Check out all the big banks, investment banks, (it's definitely more difficult to get a position when the markets are where they are now, but that doesn't mean "no", not least because there is always normal fluctuation), energy trading is a hugely growing field looking for lot's of talent, and, hey, trading is trading, commodity shops, susquehanna international group of various trading firms, slk (lately GS), wolverine, knight, deutsche, and deutsche are hiring for a fact, on and on. If you wanna go that route you'll just need a lot of persistence. And now if we can let this silly business rest in peace, then yes, Peace
TigerO, From the prospective of a firm owner/partner, I would say that the big firms are not hiring, they are laying people off unless you are a Sales/Trader with a book of clients or you can bring alot of money over to a hedge fund. I am in the same Building as Van Der Moolen Specialists(PFE,CD,HWP etc) and I talk to alot of traders at many firms. If you can get in a training program at Susquehanna or Wolverine , I would reccommend that , but it would be very hard to do unless you graduated from a top school or you know someone at these firms. As an alternative, if you have capital, you could trade at a LLC and learn as you gain experience trading. In reality, trading is really on the job training. Gene Weissman Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C. gweissman@stocktrade.net
why do you think that there is a 95% failure rate at prop firms? It sounds to me like you are bitter maybe you failed as a trader yourself? Sure we lost a few after the easy money market was over........ But out of the rest of us over the past couple of years in a tough market are making a good living. Out of 9 people in my branch office in FL, since Jan. 2001 2 people have had no down months 3 people have had one down month, 3 people have had 2 down months Since Jan 2001 we have lost 4 people that I did not include in the stats and I left one out because I do not know his stats but he drives a ferrari so he must be doing OK. The people that left did so FOR MANY REASONS. The fact that people leave the industry for many reasons skews the results.......... Keep in mind: Most restaurants do not make it 5 years. Most night clubs don't make it 2 years. Most business ventures do not get off the ground...........and most of those ventures require you to risk alot more capital that any prop. firm. Just my thoughts......................
Well, that, in my opinion, is a very professional attitude: Not necessarily the school thing, but filtering for those that have the mental make up to make it. Layoffs, sure, but as I said, if you are persistent enough there is opportunity on the sell side, a friend of mine with no prior trading experience got hired at deutsche recently, and energy is also hiring. Trading is on the job training, well, I do agree with that, the only argument I have is when the success rates are made out to be more positive than they are at pro firms, and when scalping, a style that benefits firms earning their money from commissions, but, which, lemme agree with that, has those that can and will suceed at it, albeit at the cost of a limited upside, is made out to be the cat's eyes. Regards
Oh dear, let's not go down that ground. I've never been involved with any kind of pro firm. The 95% is a well known industry stat. The relevant question is how many manage to earn more than they lose after all costs over the long term, and if that sum is sufficient to finance your personal livelihood. If you claim that throughout your company the figures are different you'd have to prove that, which btw would be the best advertising you could hope for, and I'll gladly say that I was wrong and that your firm is the exception to the rule. I promise you I'll do that.
Where did this 95% failure rate come from? My guess is from the media who are influenced by the big IB's. They came up with this number to discourage individuals from pursuing daytrading as a career,which offers unlimited income potential,limited risk, and total freedom from the corporate rat race.IB's don't want people leaving them to pursue entrepreneurial ventures,because they then would be left with a shortage of ass kissers and coffee fetchers. And even if this 95% failure rate is true,it might have been true a few years ago during the tech bubble,when truck drivers,janitors,and housewives were pursuing daytrading, most of these folks not knowing how to cut their losses short,hence the huge failure rate.Nowadays,a series 7 license is required,the market isn't experiencing the huge moves up,so the trading community is comprised of individuals that are truly dedicated and can make money in any type of market.Therefore,I would think that the success rate is alot higher nowadays.