Ok, let's say Harris does 2000 lots and makes 20 mill in one year. That's an average of 3.3 ticks per day. AFAIK Paul Rotter's best year was like 30 mill Euros, and he does 2000-3000+. So again, an average of maybe 3.5-4 ticks per day. 5.6 ticks per day would make someone a significantly better trader than 2 of the highest earning biggest size traders in the market. Forgive me for being sceptical that an ET poster achieves this using a 1 min stochastic crossover system. This is about as likely as every bucket shop trainee making 10x size per day after a month on the TT simulator.
This reminds me of those debates about whether a trader should stop trading upon reaching his daily target in case he loses his money - or continue because he may not hit the target every day. I guess it depends on how close he is to his weekly/monthly target and how sure he is about any opportunity at hand.
I have 10 lots on bund but they've only given me 4 lots on ten year so I have to use 4 lots only on bund to even it out if I'm doing bund in the morning and 10 year in afternoon. normally around the 100 ticks a week mark on a 4 lot. (about 25 ticks a week per contract, sometimes you get a good week and it's a bit more). again, this is just what I'm getting out of it, what you get may not be the same. I pay 0.7 euro per bund roundie and 0.32 I think per CBOT roundie. bear in mind that 25 ticks per contract is only 3.125 winning trades so it's not that good a strategy, but not bad if you're a newbie like myself. I'm not this Mr C. and yes there are guys making six figures a day on the bund. but not me. 10 year is smoother I think.
look at page 4. my understanding was that 10 ticks PER DAY was required trading a lot, or 100 ticks trading 10 lots etc. dogfish suggested this was about 1 tick for every 3 lots traded, implying that 2 trades will scratch, the other trade/lot will make a tick - kind of suggesting about 30 trades a day will get you your 10 ticks. although this may serve as an interesting benchmark to some, i dont think this is the right way to approach trading. you need to be as good as you can be - then start improving. dont put glass ceilings infront of you by aiming for what someone else is doing.
Precisely. There are so many different ways to trade, I wouldn't suggest targets or trading styles to anyone but when you start at many of these prop shops they say if you are more or less having 10 winners a day with some sort of consistency we'll consider getting you live, which I think is perfectly reasonable and is how I began. The live market introduces a lot more factors but they figure you should be able to weather the new challenges better if you have that history and confidence from the sim. As for how many traders do that in the company I have no idea. I know some very good traders who refuse to up their size until they are knocking out 10 winners a day more often that not on their old clip. The traders trading styles evolve too but when you're fresh on the sim and trading 1 lots it's something to set your sites on and it makes you get involved. You learn a lot more about the market when you're in and out especially at the beginning. Many knockout prop firms where the worst losing traders are cut each week of a grad course are counterproductive because you end up with a bunch of traders who are scared to press the button and got through by barely putting any trades on to make the cut. At the best firms they won't even look at the sim results for the first month or so, they don't want the grads to feel like they are being watched but just get involved in everything. Only once you have traded every type of market action can you then be selective of what to trade and what to sit out of. You'll always take away ten times the education from a losing trade than from a winning one.
So 5 ticks per contract per day is the target for professional traders? If it is the case, I would set my own target to match them!
I am the only one trading the bund in my office, and believe me, after a few month of struggling alone, I badly needed a reference. Some of the guys here have been kind enough to help me gauge my own results, and I can tell you it was extremely helpful... Tx again guys. I won't give my 2 cents on what should be a good daily objective, as I am still slightly negative on average (but improving ). However, the range of results I had are quite wide : Best day +65 ticks (per lots), worst -45ticks and an average around 0-... At first glance, 10 ticks a day didn't seem that much... However, I now realize that achieving this result with some consistency is extremely difficult considering all that happens during the day (squeezes, manipulations, big players lifting 10+ ticks offers in one trade, etc...). Now that's what I am trying to get close to, witha greater focus on my consistency. Other point, I am not sure this can be applied to the big day players (Rotter, etc....). There are a lot of scalping opportunities (1/2 ticks) possible for a few lots, (when the market is choppy) that are impossible doing for 1000 lots or more without changing the configuration of the market. BTW, today I made 5 ticks for 60 RT, but I can tell you I lost a few pounds in the process
Hi All, In relation to desks in UK/Europe, do firms prefer you to churn out 30 trades to get the 10 ticks per lot so they get the commissions or is it accepted that if it takes only 3-6 trades to get it you would still have a desk to go to the next morning? Bunds
i think the interesting and pertinent point here is the consistency angle. once you have that knacked, the world is your oyster. if you want more money, increase your size rather than try and go for bigger moves like most non pro/prop people tend to do. jmo gbl - i think it would depend. i think the quality places like marex/refco wouldnt care so much. other places would - they just want your money from r/t's. you gotta take care with these places. some are just sharks. i dont trade at an arcade, so probably not the best person to answer.
If you're covering your costs and your desk fee they don't mind how you trade. You'd need to be making enough over that to pay yourself a living and if they've backed you they get splits off that anyway. However, if an own account trader barely ever trades and is taking up a desk where a more active trader could be then they may ask you to go elsewhere, this would only happen if the office was at capacity and makes sense.