Any help is appreciated

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by gblnking, Mar 6, 2006.

  1. gblnking


    Ok, this may not be the best place to post this but here kind please. I have a very small amount of experience trading in the futures market mainly through an oversees firm that handled mini contracts. This satisfied two things.
    1) It required a much smaller account balance which aloud for more leverage
    2) All contracts were a small percentage of full ones so this brought the level of risk way down.
    For the time that I was trading I did about average. Never really making much but never losing much either. Well except when I ventured into the Forex market and I really got spanked.
    I would like to "gently" get back into the game so to speak. Is there a vehicle for me to start trading in the manner that I did before? Meaning is there a place that I can trade in partial contracts? Preferably on-line and low commission. I realize that all the books and programs in the world (and holy crap there are a lot of self proclaimed gurus out there) won't make up for good practical experience. I've researched dozens of the so-called on-line paper trading sites but found almost all of them fall short of what they say they do.
  2. Trading Bubble at it's greatest.

    Trade 100 shares of stock *Or less if on Nasdaq*

    Trade 1 contract of YM Mini-dow.

    Do not trade Forex.

    Cut your losses, let your winners run.

    Read books on trading psychology.

    Keep working at it. 2 - 3 years you will know if you got what it takes.

    I'm almost about to complete year one, still have not made it, but I know what it takes. It's hard work and you have to be optimistic about things in my opinion with trading. Got to keep trying.
  3. ???? They might still trade e-mini-mini contracts. Check them out.
  4. Oanda, period. As real as it gets... as small as it gets. Nowhere else that I know of can you practice any conceivable strategy / time frame, etc.... with real, uncompromising position sizing and risk management... on a $1000, $100, or less account, funded with (surprise) non-imaginary money.
  5. Nice advertising. Isn't that not allowed on the forums.

    But seriously, you make it sound absolutely amazing apex.

    Virginia is for lovers... well
    Forex is for idiots. Well, a few of those idiots make money, but I guarantee not many.
  6. Cute. Who's advertising? Those are basic, well-known facts, in direct response to the OP's request for "a place [to] trade in partial contracts." Anyone who takes the trouble to peruse ET or glance at the Broker Reviews section would discover those facts on his own quickly.

    Go ahead and take another look at the first post. He's particularly concerned with trading size vs. risk, and rightly so. Yes, size matters (what a shock). You may hold strong opinions, but this isn't about forex vs. futures vs. stocks at all. Not at the stage he's at.

    Let him blow up and reset his $100 real, non-paper account -- with exactly the same functionality (if not psychology) as a $1M account -- 2, 3, 6 times in a year or two, before he either begins to "get" it or decides to pursue a slighly more conventional career, after all. As opposed to blowing up his $2,000-$10,000 futures account (currency, emini, bond futures... what have you), to learn the exact same lessons, but with a forced degree of risk at least an order of magnitude greater on every trade, by any measure.
  7. Maybe you want to read his post over.

    He said he "really got spanked" in the Forex market, and you come in here talking about a Forex broker.... c'mon wtf.

    He got spanked in Forex, well so did I, I felt cheated by my broker in Forex. He is searching for another trading vehicle.

    I don't see any other reason why you would make such a post. Either you were advertising, or you just did not read his post.

    He did not have a good experience with Forex, and Forex is just flat out not a good market for newbies *in my opinion*. Although he could set up a Mini account for trading Forex. I don't really believe it is worthwhile. If he really wants to trade forex in the future, then yes of course go ahead. But if not, I'd suggest trading stocks or ETF's.

    I said what I said, I think he should go prop.

    Maybe trade SPY or the Q's?

    I don't know if I can say any specific firm.... but Trade Vision Capital is a great place and uses the Laser platform. Also heard a lot about people using Assent. Negotiate hard, get a good deal, do research on the firm. I say trading 100 shares of SPY or Q's or even some slower moving stocks is probably the best bet.

    If you do go Forex, then yes, Oanda is a very good option, although I hate the platform and charts but you may like them.

    I want to ask the original poster:

    What would you like to trade?

    How often do you wish to trade? (Scalping, Swing Trading, Momentum Trading, Investing)

    What time(s) of the day will you trade?

    What do you hope to trade in the distant future?

    I think if we know all those questions, then all of us can figure this out.
  8. Yes, I did notice his mention that he "got spanked in forex".

    We don't know the circumstances of that. However, we can infer that he was probably also working with a "much smaller account balance" (a typical couple thousand, or even less?), to allow for "more leverage".

    Most likely, his forex experience was with a mini-lot market maker. That, of course, means a minimum trade size of 10,000 currency units.

    Anyone attempting to learn this difficult, unforgiving business by trading an account size which is a fraction of minimum trade size, has all but guaranteed failure. Any vehicle... futures, stocks, options, forex... doesn't matter... the eventual outcome is virtually a foregone conclusion, on day one, for that reason alone.

    Depending on his trading profile, sure, some of your suggestions may suit him better than forex. But, unless he is much better capitalized than he was the first time around, none of those suggestions comes even close to the opportunity provided by a unit-sized dealer, such as the one I mentioned, in terms of the unequaled ability to control downside risk. (1 share of SPY, anyone?) And controlling downside risk at all times should be his number one priority.

    Obsessive, almost pathological, focus on that priority would go a long way toward boosting his probability of eventual success above the default single digits, while at the same time minimizing the financial impact of an exceedingly likely failure.
  9. gblnking


    First off, thanks for all the replies, next concerning Apex’s second reply

    “Let him blow up and reset his $100 real, non-paper account -- with exactly the same functionality (if not psychology) as a $1M account -- 2, 3, 6 times in a year or two, before he either begins to "get" it or decides to pursue a slightly more conventional career, after all. As opposed to blowing up his $2,000-$10,000 futures account (currency, emini, bond futures... what have you), to learn the exact same lessons, but with a forced degree of risk at least an order of magnitude greater on every trade, by any measure.”

    You’re dead on right. I would much rather for the short term find a place to trade small, checking different strategies and systems before deciding where to go from there. But the Forex is not for me. This much I know. I’ve skydived in the past and enjoyed it very much. I hope to go again soon (too cold here in Minnesota at the moment) But I’ll be damned if I ever do any B.A.S.E. jumping.
    My trading profile is probably best described as… 30 something full time manufacturing manager/material controller. Single father of a teenage daughter who is rapidly approaching college. I have long term stocks set up for her first year of college as well as a good portion of her second year. She will be slowly weaned from daddy during that second year but I do have financial provisions set aside for that. This I have done over the years on my own without child support or any other financial support from others.

    My trading history is as I’ve already stated I have stocks, bonds, and etc set-up about 16 years ago for my daughter’s education. They have done well but took a hit early this decade. I did a little online trading with a discount stockbroker with the intention of more long term but again took a hit early this decade. Started researching and learning more about the futures market and plunged into it a couple of years ago. As I stated in my original post I did so-so. Made some money and lost some money. The firm changed to a strictly Forex system where I quickly learned that avenue wasn’t for me.

    In the next couple of years I’ll find myself much more financial secure and would like to start getting back into “it” But again I’d like to do it in a somewhat controlled fashion. I’m not looking to be the next Thurston Howell the III although being stranded on an island with “Mary Ann” wouldn’t be so bad. (Come on we all know she would have gone for the guy with the money) I’m not looking for a get rich quick scheme, but I want more than just long-term investing. I see everyday my bosses face as his 401K is slowly collapsing.

    Maybe I’ve been overlooking another avenue. What are your opinions on Swing Trading?
  10. Although I believe you do have to fund an account to gain access to it, Interactive Brokers (IB) has a pretty good paper trading feature on their platform. It would give you simulated access to many US stocks and futures. If you do decide you want to wet your feet again with real money, IB is arguably (and someone here will argue about it) the best all around broker for active traders who want low commissions and no handholding. The only drawback of which I'm aware is that you would pay $10 per month for market data for those months in which you pay less than $30 in commissions.

    Good luck with your decision.

    #10     Mar 7, 2006