I've traded my own small account for over a year and am extremely interested in applying for a prop trading position. I've got a list of firms to send resumes to and I was wondering if I could tap into all this brainpower in the forum to see if anyone might have some advice for a beginner-novice trader who is looking to trade a firm's capital. I do not have any capital to put up, so I might just have to be patient to grow what I have to put "down". Any other options I might not be aware of to trade full time without having capital? Am I asking for too much or being naive?
your hungry your a go getter your made to do this you will pay your dues while learning and develop into a atm for the company dont sign any contracts, if you have 1 yr under your belt your not a novice and dont ever indicate that
I'm interested to hear an update whether you get on with a prop firm or not. I have not heard of any prop firms backing guys in a long time. Give us an update later whether it went well for you or not.
so do I. also, why do you feel that moving over to trading firm capital is the next move for you? if you don't have capital to post, which is almost an unspoken requirement, then how are you going to support yourself during your extensive (16 month learning curve?) also, share your thoughts after reading this important thread: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16614
I agree with limitdown 100% and feel bad not asking these questions myself. I just wrote a sermon in the other post he refers to and my sugar-buzz is dying down so I'll keep this short. But before you decide that you want to trade full time, why don't you find a firm that will let you come in and watch them trade for awhile before you make the decision. Try to convince one in your area to let you be sort of an intern in a way. I'm sure if you offer to supply all the guys there with Starbucks every morning, they will greet you with a hug and a smile every day. That will be much cheaper for you in the long run than risking yours, theirs, or anyone's capital to learn. Don't learn to trade by trading. Trade after you have learned how to trade. And I know you say you have been trading a small retail account for over a year, but that is a whole different animal as you will soon learn.
very good comments TJ, very good. I sent one trader over to one of the large offices (not mentioning names, because I respect the impact that he and his brother have had on the markets and this sub-industry), they were as polite as you can imagine, however, their stated rules were no licensed individuals not under contract were allowed in their offices during trading hours other than for interviews. No visits, no observations, no distractions were allowed. To many extents, this endeavour is a personal effort. Normally, the head trader is advertised, and marketed to the prospective new recruits, however, access is very limited as they only participate minimally in ones success, hence their mentoring is limited. It would be worth all the effort in the world to achieve "observer status" before commitment (hope spell check caught these whoppers). I'm just not sure that there are places out there that allow/provide that, for whatever reason. If someone's firm does, please notify us...
Well .... This is a problem whose resolution is not obvious. Talking to former employees for reccommendations is probably the best you can hope for and the firm should freely offer these recs. - if they dont then its a bad sign. The way I see it if you run a trading operation you do have some valid reasons to not let anyone into the trading area during operating hours - unless they have some type of contractual encumberance that limits their disclosure of their observation and they are known to the firms mangers as people that will honor their contracts. Why would you want non-employees having any type of view into your business operations and methods ? One of my clients is the largest bond trading operation in the US and runs the biggest bond fund around. I've been on their trading floor - its whisper quiet and they dont let anyone in that doesn't have all kinds of legal limitations on disclosure - the "whisper quiet" stuff is freely disclosed in the press .....
Thanks for the input. One reason I posted the question was a gut check in a sense and the other reasons were a little impatience , no trust fund, a quicker learning curve to trading full time, family obligations (two kids, which created a circuit breaker in my head to reduce the amount of risk for changing to a new career, so I was looking for a salary; I will plead ignorance and dreamy eyes on that one) and in all honesty with their leverage the possibility of more money. From looking around, it seems no one is interested in backing and the firms that do hire on salary are looking for new ivy-league college graduates. So, we'll keep chugging along, keep making money and eventually get to the point where I can do it full time on my own. Thanks again for the feedback!
...well said Limitdown......I second your thoughts here, how else can you find out if your comfortable with the environment ..I mean even car salesman let you drive the car before you buy it. And now GM even has a 24 test drive! J-
Some Institutional firms never let non employees on their front office desks. Yes, there are and should be contractual restrictions on disclosure. In the context of the preceeding comments, prospective new traders at a firm would benefit from seeing their new operation in practice and perhaps, just perhaps, those firms should find a way to accommodate such a request. To date, I don't know of very many, other than allowing a general, overall "take a peek, but don't disturb anyone" attitude. I agree with the "don't disturb" anyone, but there need s to be better accommodation for requests like these.