Discussion in 'Politics' started by FRuiTY PeBBLe, Apr 9, 2003.

  1. Whatever...
    #31     Apr 9, 2003
  2. Babak


    A little homoeroticism in Baghdad:

    #32     Apr 9, 2003
  3. No picture came up, but I instantly had a visual of Optional777 going at it with another hot male stud.
    #33     Apr 9, 2003
  4. ElCubano


    "another hot male stud" if Optional777 was a stud...hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...:D

    p.s. aphie your true colors show more and more as time passes us by........
    #34     Apr 9, 2003
  5. YOU brother... represent everything that is WRONG with America. Don't you see how 'fruity' you are. LMAO

    And you got a lot of nerve picking on your fellow Americans!Too bad we cannot banish guys like you who don't have an ounce of principle or class... and have NO idea what free speech actually means! Do you punch out anyone who disagrees with you in your family or amongst your friends... or just call them motherf*ckers!

    Pity you bro... you're excited like a little baby! And in showing your excitement... like an adolescent... you are slamming fellow Americans many of whom fought to keep your punk ass free!

    How the hell do you trade with all that psycho emotion?!! 'Cause it sure ain't passion that you're displaying. Save the high five for your own countrymen!

    And stop all this PHONY bullcrap like you give a damn about some poor Iraqi thousands of miles away! You don't! Not really! In fact bro...... did like guys like you ever lift a finger to help them or your fellow Americans, at anytime!

    #35     Apr 9, 2003
  6. I don't have a rainbow sticker on the back of my car -- if that's what you mean.
    #36     Apr 9, 2003
  7. dbphoenix


    This won't be lost on Iraqi women, either.

    #37     Apr 9, 2003
  8. msfe


    Hold Your Applause


    UMM QASR, Iraq — It's hard to smile when there's no water. It's hard to applaud when you're frightened. It's hard to say, "Thank you for liberating me," when liberation has meant that looters have ransacked everything from the grain silos to the local school, where they even took away the blackboard.

    That was what I found when spending the day in Umm Qasr and its hospital, in southern Iraq. Umm Qasr was the first town liberated by coalition forces. But 20 days into the war, it is without running water, security or adequate food supplies. I went in with a Kuwaiti relief team, who, taking pity on the Iraqis, tossed out extra food from a bus window as we left. The Umm Qasr townsfolk scrambled after that food like pigeons jostling for bread crumbs in a park.

    This was a scene of humiliation, not liberation. We must do better.

    I am sure we will, as more relief crews arrive. But this scene explained to me why, even here in the anti-Saddam Shia heartland of southern Iraq, no one is giving U.S. troops a standing ovation. Applause? When I asked Lt. Col. Richard Murphy, part of the U.S. relief operation, how Iraqis were greeting his men, he answered bluntly and honestly: "I have not detected any overt hostility."

    Overt hostility? We've gone from expecting applause to being relieved that there is no overt hostility. And we've been here only 20 days. As I said, I'm certain things will improve with time. But for now, America has broken the old order — Saddam's regime — but it has yet to put in place a new order, and the vacuum is being filled in way too many places by looters, thugs, chaos, thirst, hunger and insecurity. A particular problem here in the south is the fact that British troops have still not totally secured Basra, the regional center. Without free access to Basra, the whole southern economy is stalled.

    It would be idiotic to even ask Iraqis here how they felt about politics. They are in a pre-political, primordial state of nature. For the moment, Saddam has been replaced by Hobbes, not Bush. When I asked Dr. Safaa Khalaf at Umm Qasr Hospital why the reception for U.S. forces had been so muted, he answered: "Many people here have sons who were soldiers. They were forced to join the army. Many people lost their sons. They are angry from the war. Since the war, no water, no food, no electricity. . . . We have not had water for washing or drinking for five days. . . . There is no law, no policeman to arrest people. I don't see yet the American reign of running the country."

    The scene at Umm Qasr Hospital is tragic. A woman who delivered a baby an hour earlier is limping home, and her mother has the baby tucked under her black robe. An old orange Dodge speeds up and a malnourished teenage boy moans on the back seat. A little kid is playing with an X-ray film of someone's limb. In the hospital lab, the sink is piled with bloody test tubes, waiting to be washed when the water comes back on.

    What is striking, though, is that after people get through complaining to you about their situation, they each seem to have a story about a family member or cousin who was arbitrarily jailed or killed by Saddam's thugs. They are truly glad to be rid of him. America did good in doing that, so now we must build a peace we can be equally proud of.

    But this is such a broken land. Its spirit was broken by Saddam long before we arrived, and now, because of this war, its major cities and iron-fisted order are being broken as well. Killing Saddam alone will not bring America the thank-yous it expects because Iraqis are not yet feeling free. Only replacing Saddam's order with a better order will do that. "There is no freedom because there is no security," said Dr. Mohammed al-Mansuri, the hospital's director.

    We are so caught up with our own story of "America's liberation of Iraq," and the Arab TV networks are so caught up with their own story of "America's occupation of Iraq," that everyone seems to have lost sight of the real lives of Iraqis.

    "We are lost," said Zakiya Jassim, a hospital maintenance worker. "The situation is getting worse. I don't care about Saddam. He is far away. I want my country to be normal."

    America broke Iraq; now America owns Iraq, and it owns the primary responsibility for normalizing it. If the water doesn't flow, if the food doesn't arrive, if the rains don't come and if the sun doesn't shine, it's now America's fault. We'd better get used to it, we'd better make things right, we'd better do it soon, and we'd better get all the help we can get.
    #38     Apr 9, 2003
  9. jem


    I am wondering if Rumsfeld was lying when he said that is more water is there now than 30 days ago. Could you get us some facts on this question. Rumsfeld said that they have more food and water now than before the coalition came in. Who should we believe? I think Rumsfeld cited this town specifically to the press.

    Also what is the point of saying hold your applause-- are you saying that Iraq was better off before the coalition got there? Is it not time to acknowledge that the statements made by Rumsfeld and Bush were correct. That the Iraqis would tip once the fear was gone. I mean whats up. I can admit that during the sandstorms based on cnn and our old generals I questioned whether we had enough men there and if our top general was a good one. (although I always supported and believed in our mission and said so on other threads.)

    Man I am glad my doubts appear to be wrong. Now I would like to see all the anti liberation people admit they were wrong or at least admit they were misinformed and should not have believed al jeezera or al jis ya or whatever that b.s. spewing media is called.
    #39     Apr 9, 2003
  10. msfe,

    You know, there isn't one thing that could happen on this planet without you putting some spin on it and highlighting all the bad things. God himself could come down to Earth and you'd find some bullshit story that focused on the bullshit.

    Can't you just admit that this is a good thing for the people of Iraq??
    #40     Apr 9, 2003