Another would-be suicide shooter hits the USA

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by TorontoTrader2, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. What is with these domestic radical extremists? Who feel the need to use suicide shooting?

    What is wrong with a culture and religion that causes this to happen, some guy yelling aiiiiiiii as he kills a bunch then kills himself?

    Does he think he'll be rewarded in 'heaven'?

    I guess I can understand it, kids are brainwashed with a steady diet of violent movies and video games, with a government who practices state-sponsored violence. Gotta produce a few radicals, I guess.

    If thew world stands by and lets the USA develop these radicals, it is a threat to us all.


    --------------------------------------------------



    Gunman opens fire at church; one suspect in custodyStory Highlights
    NEW: Minister says gunman shot to death, but police not confirming any deaths

    NEW: Suspect in custody, police say

    Hospital says several shooting victims being treated for injuries

    Gunman fired on worshippers at Colorado Springs megachurch, minister says


    (CNN) -- A black-clad man armed with a rifle opened fire on worshippers at a Colorado Springs, Colorado, megachurch Sunday afternoon, wounding several people, church and hospital officials reported.

    Rob Brendle, an associate pastor at New Life Church, said the attack took place inside the church after a late-morning service and that the suspect was fatally shot.

    But police spokesman Lt. Fletcher Howard said he could confirm no fatalities, and that all of the shooting occurred outside the church, in the parking lot.

    "When we got here, there were victims out here in the parking lot and everyone else was in the church," he said.

    He said a suspect was in custody, but police do not know the motive for the attack nor any relationship between the suspect and the victims. Howard would not confirm the number of wounded, but added, "We have some people that are in shock, which is to be expected after an event like this takes place."

    Lt. Lari Sevene, a spokeswoman for the El Paso County Sheriff's Department, said the attack took place shortly after 1 p.m. and said possibly two or three people were wounded. And Amy Sufak, a spokeswoman for Penrose-St. Francis Hospital in Colorado Springs, told CNN that several victims were taken to the hospital. Watch report about shootings in Colorado »


    The shooting at New Life Church came about 12 hours after a shooting at a missionary training center in Arvada, outside Denver, left two people dead and two wounded. The gunman in that incident is still being sought by police.

    As of Sunday afternoon, there was no known connection between the two incidents. Arvada and Colorado Springs are about 70 miles apart.

    The non-denominational church is on the northwestern outskirts of Colorado Springs, near the U.S. Air Force Academy. It claims a membership of more than 10,000.

    The church was founded by the Rev. Ted Haggard, an evangelical Christian leader who was ousted in 2006 after allegations that he had been a client of a male prostitute from whom he had purchased drugs. Haggard admitted to undisclosed "sexual immorality" and called himself "a deceiver and a liar" in a letter to the congregation. E-mail to a friend

    CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.





    Police hunt gunman who killed 2 at missionary centerStory Highlights
    NEW: Police release names of man and woman killed by gunman

    NEW: Shooter asked for place to stay, center says; when turned down, he opened fire

    Police say shooter is white, about 20; may have facial hair, glasses

    Center trains young people to become Christian missionaries

    Next Article in U.S. »


    Read VIDEO

    (CNN) -- Police used dogs Sunday to search for a gunman who they said shot four people, killing two of them, at a Colorado training center for missionaries.


    A police car blocks the roadway to the building where four people were shot early Sunday.

    1 of 2 Police hoped the fresh snow would help them track the shooter, who apparently fled on foot after the early morning shooting, Susan Medina of the Arvada Police Department said.

    She described the gunman as a white male, roughly 20 years of age, wearing a dark jacket. He may have a beard or mustache and may be wearing glasses, Medina said. She added, "We believe he may be wearing a dark skull cap or beanie."

    Police confirmed that two of the four people shot early Sunday at the live-in training center for young Christian missionaries were dead, and identified them as Tiffany Johnson and Philip Crouse. Watch update from Arvada, Colorado »

    At about 12:30 a.m. Sunday, the gunman entered a building where Youth With a Mission members were cleaning up from a Christmas banquet, said Peter Warren, the center's co-founder.

    He asked for housing for the night, Warren said, which Johnson refused to give him.

    "She said, 'We really can't do that right now,' " Warren said.

    "And then he opened fire."

    Don't Miss
    KMGH: Local coverage
    Gunman opens fire at church
    Johnson, 26, was from Minnesota and Crouse, 24, was from Alaska, police said in a statement. The two other shooting victims are men, ages 22 and 23, police said. One is in critical condition and the other is in stable condition.

    Warren said both Johnson and Crouse died in surgery. He said the man in critical condition had a bullet wound in his neck and the other had wounds in his legs.

    Paul Filidis from the Youth With a Mission Colorado Springs office identified the wounded men as Charlie Blanch and Dan Griebenow, CNN affiliate KUSA reported. Both are Youth with a Mission staff members, according to the organization's Web site.

    Johnson has been affiliated with the organization since 2006, and joined the staff in spring 2007, the Web site says.

    Warren said a memorial service for the two dead would likely be held Tuesday or Wednesday. "These kids were like our kids, you know?" he told KUSA. "It's just such a tragedy."

    Warren said the center was bringing the 80 or so other people who live at the Arvada campus to the group's mountain campus in Golden, Colorado.

    "We're just going to be honest, and pray for one another, and cry with one another," he said.

    There were about 45 people in the building when the shooter entered, Medina said, and those who weren't wounded were transported to an off-site location where police are interviewing them, she said.

    The center is home to dozens of young people from all over the world who are being trained as Christian missionaries, according to the center's Web site.

    Two "reverse 911" calls have gone out to residents of the neighborhood to let them know a shooting suspect might be in the area, she said. She urged residents to stay vigilant and call police if they spot anything suspicious.


    Youth With a Mission was founded in 1960, and now operates in more than 1,000 locations in 149 countries, according to its Web site. The organization has a staff of nearly 16,000.

    Arvada is a Denver, Colorado, suburb with a population of about 105,000, according to the city's Web site. E-mail to a friend

    All About Denver
     
  2. To be fair, it's not just the USA that has this problem. Australia, NZ and Britian have had quite a few as well. The Port Arthur massacre in Australia was one of the worst (if not the worst) ever.

    You don't hear of these things happening in Western Europe. Perhaps this is an English speaking thing. Or perhaps they are not as widely reported.

    And yes, I do think the US culture of violence in TV and film and the glorification of state sponsored terrorism has something to do with it.
     
  3. reg

    reg

    What is wrong with these radical extremists? Who feels the need to kill women?

    What is wrong with a culture and religion that causes this to happen, some guy yelling aiiiiii as he kills a bunch of women?

    Do they think they'll be rewarded in 'heaven'?

    I guess I can understand it, kids are brainwashed with a steady diet of violent images and exhortations, with a religion and culture which practice violence. Gotta produce a few radicals, I guess.

    If the world stands by and lets the Middle East develop these radicals, it is a threat to us all.


    Vigilantes kill 40 women in Iraq's south

    By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Dec 9, 6:14 PM ET



    BAGHDAD - Religious vigilantes have killed at least 40 women this year in the southern Iraqi city of Basra because of how they dressed, their mutilated bodies found with notes warning against "violating Islamic teachings," the police chief said Sunday.

    Maj. Gen. Jalil Khalaf blamed sectarian groups that he said were trying to impose a strict interpretation of Islam. They dispatch patrols of motorbikes or unlicensed cars with tinted windows to accost women not wearing traditional dress and head scarves, he added.

    "The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for un-Islamic behavior," Khalaf told The Associated Press. He said men with Western clothes or haircuts are also attacked in Basra, an oil-rich city some 30 miles from the Iranian border and 340 miles southeast of Baghdad.

    "Those who are behind these atrocities are organized gangs who work under cover of religion, pretending to spread the instructions of Islam, but they are far from this religion," Khalaf said.

    Throughout Iraq, many women wear a headscarf and others wear a full face veil although secular women are often unveiled. Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the rise of a Shiite-dominated government, armed men in some parts of the country have sometimes forced women to cover their heads or face punishment. In some areas of the heavily Shiite south, even Christian women have been forced to wear headscarves.

    Before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, was known for its mixed population and night life. Now, in some areas, red graffiti threatens any woman who wears makeup and appears with her hair uncovered: "Your makeup and your decision to forgo the headscarf will bring you death."

    Khalaf said bodies have been found in garbage dumps with bullet holes, decapitated or otherwise mutilated with a sheet of paper nearby saying, "she was killed for adultery," or "she was killed for violating Islamic teachings." In September, the headless bodies of a woman and her 6-year-old son were among those found, he said. A total of 40 deaths were reported this year.

    "We believe the number of murdered women is much higher, as cases go unreported by their families who fear reprisal from extremists," he said.

    Harith al-Ithari, who works in the Basra offices of the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, said the conservative religious movement opposed the killings and blamed "gangs with foreign support to destabilize the city."

    "There is a concrete religious principle that says that wearing makeup and forgoing the hijab (headscarf) in public is a sin," al-Ithari said. "But killing them is a sin bigger than this one."


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071209/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_women_killed
     
  4. I am copying this entire snippet from a forum about the Omaha mall shooting...we must always believe in the lone gunman theory...always...

    This is getting better and better:


    AP 12-7-07
    Police did not release video of the shooting, but released a still image from the tape that showed Hawkins with his sleeves rolled up, aiming the AK-47 to fire in front of a store mannequin. The photos appear to contradict earlier reports that the gunman had a military-style haircut and entered the mall wearing a camouflage vest.

    [...uh.... two shooters?]


    "I've just snapped" Hawkins wrote in his suicide note.

    [Well, that explains everything. No need to question further.]


    (Kevin)Harrington, 45, said he told police in Bellevue about a month ago that one of Hawkins' friends offered to sell Valium to his 13-year-old son. Harrington said he also told police that Hawkins had previously shot at a car during a drug deal gone bad. "We told them about the drugs, we told them about the guns, and nothing was done," Harrington said.

    Bellevue police said the house where Hawkins lived is in an unincorporated part of the city and not in their jurisdiction. Police Chief John Stacey would not talk about Kevin Harrington's complaint, but said normally officers pass complaints from that neighborhood onto the Sarpy County Sheriff. Sheriff's officials said they never received the complaint.

    [Pass that buck! Oh yeah, you can bet the cops knew all about this guy.]
     
  5. This should greatly increase profits for LLL and others! Fear Sells.

    ---------------------------------------

    Shoppers ready to accept metal detectors after shooting

    AFP
    Friday, December 7, 2007

    Shopping centers across America have stepped up security to protect shoppers during the busy holiday season in the wake of a deadly shooting in a Nebraska mall that left nine people dead.

    While several shopping malls increased patrols after a lone gunman fired an assault rifle into a crowded store in Omaha on Wednesday, industry officials acknowledged that such tragedies are difficult to prevent.

    Shopping centers, which are considered by security experts a "soft" target for terrorism, already implemented tighter security measures following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

    But American shoppers are reluctant to accept even measures that would force them to go through metal detectors or be frisked by guards to enter their beloved malls, said Malachy Kavanagh, spokesman for the International Council of Shopping Centers.

    "We hope that we will not get to that point in this country because we live in a free society and respect people's right to travel unimpeded," Kavanagh told AFP.

    While Shoppers who were surveyed in focus groups indicated they would rather not have to go through metal detectors, they appeared willing to accept them if the government raised the terror alert level, he said.


    Measures installed after September 11 include closer coordination with local police, the use of high-resolution cameras that can read car license plates in parking lots and the inspection of delivery trucks. Some malls even have bomb-sniffing dogs.

    The FBI warned just last month of potential Al-Qaeda attacks on US shopping malls during the Christmas season, but conceded that the threats received may not be credible.

    "If you look back through the years, this is a tactic and practice of Al-Qaeda to express threats during the Christmas season," FBI special agent Ross Rice said at the time, adding that the information had not been corroborated.

    Rice said an FBI bulletin went out to law enforcement agencies to advise them to be vigilant as malls become crowded with holiday shoppers.

    But he said he did not think any new security measures would be put in place in response to the threat as most local agencies already increase patrols at malls during this time.

    "This time of the year is very busy in and around malls and they focus additional security there," he said.

    The Defense Department also has a system in place to support local law enforcement officials in case of a terror attack in a shopping center, said Paul McHale, the Pentagon's assistant secretary for homeland defense.

    But McHale, whose position was created to supervise the Pentagon's homeland defense activities, said deploying heavily armed patrols was not the solution.

    "We cannot remain the kind of nation that we are, that we want to be, that we intend to be in terms of freedom, if we emphasize security by turning civilian gathering places into armed fortresses," McHale said at a news conference on post 9/11 security on Thursday.

    "The better approach is not to try to harden shopping malls, turn them into armed compounds with a securituy presence that is chilling in its very character," he said.

    "The better approach is to achieve that kind of defense ... through the lawful collection of information that gives us advance warning that an attack may occur."

    But industry officials conceded that random acts of violence, like the Omaha attack in which 19-year-old Robert Hawkins killed eight people before turning the gun on himself, were difficult to prevent.

    Omaha's Westroads Mall, as other US shopping centers, had just received 45,000 dollars from the government to improve its security before Wednesday's massacre, said Homeland Security Department spokeswoman Amy Kudwa.

    "These random acts of violence can strike anywhere -- at schools, office buildings, post offices -- anywhere law-abiding citizens are present," Simon Property Group, which owns several US malls, said in a statement.

    "Law enforcement and security prevention measures, no matter how good, cannot forestall a tragedy such as this from happening," it said
     
  6. I agree - could it be that radical american culture and radical islam are two sides of the same coin? A dark, death-driven society of endless wars, religious fundementalism, and domestic terror?

    Is it a coincidence that two radical cultures are the ones fighting now?


    The new picture of sweet freedom in a police state:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. As opposed to this?

    [​IMG]


     
  8. Families pained by Canada verdict

    Relatives held a prayer service outside the court after the verdict
    Relatives of women killed by Canadian Robert Pickton and police investigating their deaths have voiced disappointment at his second-degree murder conviction.
    Pickton, 58, was convicted on Sunday of the murders of six women whose remains were found on his Vancouver farm.

    However, the jury could not decide if all the killings were pre-meditated and so convicted him of a lesser murder charge, which could allow parole.

    Pickton still faces 20 more murder charges for the deaths of women.

    Most of the women he is accused of murdering were prostitutes and drug addicts from a seedy Vancouver neighbourhood.

    If convicted on all charges, Pickton would be Canada's most prolific serial killer.

    On Sunday, he was found guilty of killing Mona Wilson, Sereena Abotsway, Marnie Frey, Brenda Wolfe, Andrea Joesbury and Georgina Papin.

    We let these girls and women down in life. We've now let them down in death

    Bill Fordy, police interrogator

    The verdict followed a week of deliberations by the jury, and 10 months of gruesome testimony and evidence.

    Under Canadian law a murder conviction leads to an automatic life sentence, but the second rather than first-degree murder verdict means he could technically be eligible for parole in 10 years' time.

    "It should have been first degree," Rick Frey, father of Marnie Frey, said. "You don't have six murders over that time and not have first degree."

    'Second class citizens'

    Bill Fordy, the police officer who questioned Pickton after his arrest, agreed, saying: "We let these girls and women down in life. We've now let them down in death."

    Gladys Raddick, who held a prayer ceremony for friends and relatives of those killed, thought the verdict was an insult to the victims' memory.




    'Poorest postcode' killer

    "I was really disappointed because they were people and I really honestly believe that first-degree murder would have been appropriate," she said.

    "To me, they weren't second-class citizens and that is the way the verdict came down - as second-class citizens."

    But family members were relieved that there was at least a conviction.

    If and when a trial over the 20 other killings takes place will now depend on whether Pickton decides to appeal against this verdict.

    Murray Watson, foster brother of one of victims from the second group, told CBC that a further trial was necessary.

    "There won't be no closure with the families if we don't have that second trial," he told the state broadcaster.

    Parts in freezer

    The pig farmer denied killing any of the women, but prosecutors presented thousands of pieces of forensic evidence and showed video of him admitting to police that he was hoping to kill 50 women.

    Police raided Pickton's farm in 2002 and found the dismembered remains and personal belongings of the women Pickton was accused of picking up on the streets of Vancouver.

    Parts of two of the women's bodies were found in five-gallon buckets in Pickton's freezer, parts of the others were discovered in a dustbin, a pig pen, and buried in manure on the farm.

    The 10-month trial heard from almost 130 witnesses, including Lynn Ellingson, who said she once walked in on the pig farmer, who was covered with blood, as Georgina Papin's body hung from a chain in the farm's slaughterhouse.

    The BBC's Ian Gunn in Vancouver says that that Pickton's lawyers argued that none of the evidence proved that he himself had murdered the women.

    But the prosecutor argued that the evidence, while circumstantial, was more than enough to prove that Pickton had been the murderer and the jury eventually agreed.
     
  9. notice that all the lunatics are white whti
     
  10. #10     Dec 10, 2007