Another retail "PFOF" nightmare fill....

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by mrpace, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. mrpace


    or "Why I must go direct access ASAP"

    Wednesday, April 12, I placed a trade to buy 300 shares of TSO at 10:29:59 (MARKET ORDER). Now in the three months I've been firing off market orders with this particular firm, I have had no complaints, as I trade exclusively highly liquid active stocks.

    I sit there and watch as my order remains unfilled for THIRTY SEVEN SECONDS. In that time, the EIA Inventory report was released, and TSO went up $1 in between the time I submitted my order and the time it was filled.

    Those with access to T&S may want to review the tape from the time period between 10:30:00 and 10:30:37 when my order was finally filled at $110.01. Total ass-reaming.

    This is the official reply from the broker after I's a good one:

    It's tough enough to make a profit (which I did, despite this terrible fill) without having to jump through hoops in the process.

    Payment for order flow should be outlawed. And I need to smarten up.
  2. mnx


    The stock probably hit a LRP at the time and any orders sent to the NYSE during that time usually take an eternity to fill. Sometimes you can get massive price improvement, other times you wait forever and get screwed. In this instance you got the latter obviously. You should be glad that your broker did anything for you.

    You've got to be careful where you route your orders, but I'm sure you've learned that lesson... ;)


  3. What is it with all these noobs using market orders?

    Did they read somewhere that real traders use market orders cause they are always right , and need to get that stock in their clutches asap?

    Use a freaking limit, and add 10 or 20 cents to it if you musr ,so you dont get reamed next time.

    Market Order= F*** ME order.
  4. At least the OP was realistic ... and said he needed to smarten up. Well done.
  5. Jaxon


    I am a little confused. Am I looking at the right stock? Did you get filled at 111.01? That is the price I see at 10:30:37, but a 110.9843 print at 10:30.01 was followed by a 111.1668 trade at 10:30.05 and every subsequent trade was above 111.10 until the first print at 10:30.37 was 111.17! (NASD ADF) followed by the 111.01 (New York).

    So I am confused as to what price you traded at and what you are complaining about, aside from the delay. I don't see how it cost you any money. Are you trading with delayed quotes?
  6. if u make a market order, you deserve what you get.

    and in this case, what u got.

    i have 2 direct access brokers, and two "payment for order flow' type brokers.

    i use limit orders with both, and they serve different purposes

    the only market order to ever use (imo) is a stop market order. cause when u NEED to get out, don't fiddle with limit orders
  7. RL8093


    Always been my experience also - but yet there seems to be a bunch of folks on ET who regularly trade w/ market orders (and many who don't appear to be noobs). What's up w/ them? How do they not get regularly screwed? Or do they just assume the screw-job / slippage is part of trading?
  8. mrpace


    No, unless IB is considered delayed quotes, which they are not.

    And no, the trade I am complaining about was NOT placed through IB...I was simply using IB as my quote source at the time.

    If indeed the prints were as you say they were Jaxon, then why didn't the broker come back at me with that as a reply, instead of the whole "seeking quote improvement, market maker got no response from Instinet, then finally threw your ordet to NYSE" response that they sent to me?

    Are you sure you're looking at the right day?
  9. TM1


    In a semi-defense for market orders I can say that I've never had a problem using them to sell stocks such as XOM or CVX when I'm trying to catch the top of an intraday swing. However I would expect to get screwed if I used a M.O most other times, or even when trading XOM around the IEA report or earnings or some other news that would cause a huge price movement.

    In general though, I'd agree with a previous poster; use a M.O. when you need out asap in a highly volatile stock.
  10. mrpace


    And let me state it once again for those who glossed over it the first time....I've been trading with MARKET ORDERS since January with NO COMPLAINTS. No serious slippage.

    This is to be expected when one is trading high volume NYSE issues such as TSO, GS, MRO, X, etc. etc.

    This wasn't an indictment of MARKET ORDERS, it was an indictment of the PAYMENT FOR ORDER FLOW retail broker scheme.

    If my order went straight to NYSE, there is no doubt I would have gotten a way better fill....
    #10     Apr 17, 2007