Right, so Satan was cast out because he was created faulty in the beginning, God created a faulty being destined from the beginning to hell even though the devil first lived in heaven? And every believer has never changed their mind that christianity is not flawed? And every believer is saved forever and never tempted by the devil to fail? I just don't any longer believe the outlandish stories taught by christians which come out of a flawed man written bible. One moment God loves His creation, next moment He's in a rage and wants it all to burn eternally. Narcissistic and psycho God you guys have.
%% GOOD questions. NO he was created with a free will just like men + women + sure cant blame God for his bad choices..................................................................................... You last line is true , not because we deserve that. Its like the Darlene Zschech [Past Hillsong Worship ]song SAYS. Christ revealed + I am healed/>42 million video Views\Album In Jesus Name
Yep! I like the last line: Every believer is saved forever!!!!! My salvation cost God a lot. But the matter has been settled now, for all eternity. Hell is terrible, and I wish there was no such thing, but then there is the problem of evil and what is to be done with it. I also wish there was no evil. When God told Adam and Eve that One would come to crush the Serpent's head, He was referring to destroying not only Satan but also the evil that Satan introduced, so that all can be restored. He offers salvation to all who will turn to Him to be reconciled to Him, through Jesus. An eternal life free from all sin and all evil and consisting only of all that is good is a very wonderful thing to look forward to.
%% Good points/good Bible points. LET FREEDOM ring\let the white dove sing ROLL that stone away. Let the guilty pay. Its Independence day. Thats the good news with God's news . Jesus Christ paid my guilty debt/sins Martina Mcbride + PB, CMT Crossroads >> 1,077,777 Video Views
Both man and the devil get an eternity continuing in their own wills. Thankfully, people are offered a partdon, the devil has not been offered reconciliation. As to why God is allowing the devil to do whatever he wants, and we might as well also ask why God is allowing people to do the evil they desire. I don't know all of God's reasons, but here a couple things to think about: 1. God is allowing His creations to choose that which is contrary to His nature, because they WANT to do those things. He is not forcing us to do evil or to do right, although He has determined that all thoughts and actions will be judged. When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. James 1:13:14 NIV Another way to think about this is to put the question like this: God is not forcing you to repent and turn to Jesus, but He does desire you to do so. Do you want to or not want to? If you say you don't want to, then why would you want to put the blame on God for judging your sin? From His point of view, He gave up His Son to be put to death by humans and anyone who hears this and doesn't follow through and turn to God is turning away His pardon, basically, choosing to rather continue in their own way and suffer the consequences. If this isn't the case, if it's not about the difficulty of facing up to our accountability toward God, then why wouldn't everyone apply 100% of their existence to determining whether or not the Bible is valid, and if it is, then following God's prescription for reconciliation? Many people will mock because they don't want it to be true, not for lack of evidence. People have been warned their eternity hangs in the balance, but they don't care because it isn't about the evidence or lack of evidence, it's about the heart. Jesus also gave the reason as being that men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. It is very difficult for people to acknowledge their sin before a holy God if they have not received forgiveness from God. When we find that Jesus satisfied God's wrath fully and delights in saving people, and that God is the One who cleans us up, then we can come to God in prayer, acknowledging our sin and clinging to what Jesus did and receive pardon, forgiveness and reconciliation. When that happens then Jesus becomes a very welcome Friend and a lot of things about this world begin to make sense. 2. God is allowing evil to be revealed for how evil it is so that His judgment will be seen as righteous when He does finally judge evil. "if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?" Romans 3:5, 6 I heard someone say once that God is dealing with evil in such a way that once this world is over and done and all evil has been judged, hell will serve as a reminder to all of God's creation that rebellion in God's kingdom will not be tolerated. It would seem that this would serve to bring peace of mind to people and angels in that future time, because we will realize that evil will never enter heaven. Hell will also serve as a warning to never again depart from God to do evil, and thankfully, God's Word promises that no redeemed people ever will. Will we feel enslaved in heaven in a kingdom we don't want to be in? Of course not. When one thinks that it is God who created us, that nothing that we have comes from ourselves (except, I suppose, our will to go our own way, but even that was given to us by God) and we realize that God is not evil, but only good and loves, then there is no need to fear. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18
Mankind needs a lawyer to understand christian fineprint. Problem is what lawyer? If christian lawyer or nonchristian, both will be biased. One would be stupid to accept the bible on face value. At least with christianity one can argue over points of view, if you were Muslim, you would be stoned to death.
All due respect.... but that kinda sums up Mickey's argument's here don't ya think? You don't agree so you block it out? That's religious extremism if you ask me. I've brought this up before, not sure if it was with you, but in this latest round of back and forward religious bantering spanning a few threads with our beloved ET Aussie ( ) ... you keep going back to the "God so loved the world he gave his only son..." (John 3:16 I think) ... but I'll bring it up again... how in the hell does that differ from any mother or father in say... Ukraine... that has given THEIR son for a greater cause. Not being blasphemous... but what makes Jesus dying so special? A lot of Marines died scaling Mt Suribachi just so we can sit here and write these words. I don't see a difference. Millions throughout history have "given their only son". This whole Bible verbatim thing... I'm with Mick. He's right.
I don't know what you're talking about. Christianity is based on being saved from one's sin through personal faith and repentance in Jesus. The Bible is very easy to understand on the important things. Some of the "finer print" that's more ambiguous isn't necessary for being saved or having fellowship with God. If you're referring to why God allows Satan to mess with people, then just remember that the why isn't emphasized in the Bible, but the fact that Satan does is emphasized and that's what's important. I agree, in a sense with you, just as I think it's dangerous to accept anything on face value. However, there is a lot that validates the Bible. The Bible has a convicting work it does in those who read it. This is not a quote from the Bible, but it is a good quote, "The Bible will keep you from sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible." The Bible is unlike any other book in this way. It addresses the heart condition of mankind and his/her relationship with God in a way that other religions don't and when the Holy Spirit also works on a person when they are reading the Bible, then one really does not need much else for evidence because the truths resound with us. I'm not sure how to explain it except maybe it's a little bit like when Peter denied Jesus in front of the soldiers then as the soldiers led Jesus away, Jesus turned and looked at Peter and Peter was undone with that look. He went out and wept, all from a look. I am writing from personal experience when I say that there are times when I have read scripture and God has impressed His truth upon me so clearly that it was almost like He had looked at me, sometimes for my own lack of devotion to Himself, and sometimes for just helping me to know His person beyond just the written words on the page. If someone thinks God just makes me feel guilty, that's not at all what it's like. It's like you realize His deep love for you, and how you haven't loved Him as much in return, cuz if you had, then _________ fill in the blank...you would have responded differently in a situation, or made more time for God, or whatever. It's a loving thing, not a guilt trip thing. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't had this happen. BTW, my experience isn't just something I alone have, but my Christian friends have similar experiences as well. Hey, I was reading something by Spurgeon, not quite the same, but almost, so I will type it up here: No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” Jeremiah 31:34 NIV From Faith's Checkbook, a compilation of Charles Spurgeon's sayings: Truly, whatever else we do not know, we know the Lord. This day is this promise true in your experience, and it is not a little one. The least believer among us knows God in Christ Jesus. Not as fully as we desire; but yet truly and really we know the Lord. We not only know doctrines about Him, but we know Him. He is our Father and our Friend. We are acquainted with Him personally. We can say, "My Lord, and my God." We are on terms of close fellowship with God, and many a happy season do we spend in His holy company. We are no more strangers to our God, but the secret of the Lord is with us. This is more than nature could have taught us. Flesh and blood has not revealed God to us. Christ Jesus had made known the Father to our hearts. If, then, the Lord has made us know Himself, is not this the fountain of all saving knowledge? To know God is eternal life. So soon as we come to acquaintance with God we have the evidence of being quickened into newness of life. O my soul, rejoice in this knowledge, and bless thy God all this day!
"but I'll bring it up again... how in the hell does that differ from any mother or father in say... Ukraine... that has given THEIR son for a greater cause. Not being blasphemous... but what makes Jesus dying so special? A lot of Marines died scaling Mt Suribachi just so we can sit here and write these words." I did respond to this once before, but maybe I wasn't clear in my explanation. I will try to be so clear that a third grader can understand it this time. If I'm understanding your question correctly, I would say that the question is a little flawed because salvation isn't completely described by just the act of the Father giving up His Son. It should be further explained that God must punish sin and Jesus is the only One who could take the punishment that we deserve. He could do this because of a few things: Jesus, because He is fully God and fully man, is the perfect mediator between the two. He satisfied God's wrath against sin as God taking on Himself our punishment AND He represented us people because He became one of us humans so that He could die for us. Our sin is against an Infinite Being who is our Creator. No mere human could ever be an adequate substitute for taking the punishment of other humans partly because we are not infinite or the Creator. Jesus, however, is an Infinite Being and also eternal and our Creator. He was able to pay the cost of our sin to the Eternal, Infinite, Creator God. I hope I made the point clear that it's because of who Jesus is that He could satisfy God's wrath at our sin by taking that wrath onto Himself. So, although the Father did give up His Son for us, His Son paid the price that ONLY a God/man could pay. To receive the gift of forgiveness we must personally repent and trust in Jesus to save us based on believing that what He did at the cross did satisfy the wrath of God against our sin. Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many...Hebrews 9:27, 28 The book of Hebrews explains it on a much deeper level. It's a really good book, if anyone wants to dig in deeper. I'm going to post Hebrews 9 here: Worship in the Earthly Tabernacle9 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. 6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order. The Blood of Christ 11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! 15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. 16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.