Annual Returns for Prop Traders?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Antihero1776, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. From your experience, what is the annual return range successful prop traders earn? I already have heard that only 10% or less are successful. Just want to know what kind of annual returns this group of successful traders usually earn.
  2. There were some court documents after Tuco that showed returns for their traders. You might find them linked on this site or via google. Felt kind of dirty looking at what I'm sure is normally very private data. It was pretty insightful data but only for that year I think. Mostly losing accounts but some that made good money.
  3. Consistently profitable traders experience variable returns.

    If you average it out, sure you'll get a number, but the reality is if you look at the top performing traders at a given prop firm they will have long periods of low returns and short periods of dumptrucks worth of cash unloading on them. So getting an average out of that isn't worth much.

    Yes, some people like more consistent earnings... and some traders can pull in ~$50k a year pretty consistently.. but even they will do it mostly within a few months of the year and the rest just gives them mixed results.
  4. Shanb


    Varies alot. Most don't make any money at all. You have those that earn a decent living from it 50-100k, and then who can earn in the high 6-figures , 7-figures.

    Check out Mark Sperling from t3live. The wall street journal did a video of one of the high vol days from August and he made 90k in one day.
  5. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    Well, there are two prop business models and they are completely different beasts.

    As far as I can tell, the equity prop model adds leverage and precious little else, so I could believe the "retail" type of low performance metrics.

    The futures prop model is a completely different situation, and the performance metrics would be much higher (the Chicago model).
  6. lwlee


    You're welcome.

    Daytrading Successes - A Case Study of Tuco Trading

    Here's real verifiable proof 90% lose

    Pretty dismal that being profitable, top 3%, meant a $50k salary. You had to be like in the top 1% to be living the life.

  7. Thanks for the replies everyone. Seems like prop trading is more luck then skill with only 3% earning over 50k. Are maybe it just that trading firm? I wonder what the consistency is. If that 3% can do it for 10 years. Probably more skill then luck then.
  8. I did a research study years ago... audited returns of 30%/yr.... pensions, futures, mutual funds, all categories audited.... over 10 years, were in the top 0.1% of money managers. >40%/yr... "you could count them on 2 hands"..
  9. I read Paul Rotter turned like 1 Mio into 6 in about 6 months when he started his firm.
    I think the best traders have a few stellar years ( 100- 500%) then it goes back to normal, they end up doing something else most of the time which is telling.
  10. Most traders that I know, and all of our traders, don't consider "Annual returns" in the classic sense, not relevant.

    We all try to make a living trading, the amount of money used is just another tool, like a computer. If you have $20K and make 100% annual return, that's still not enough to be called "trading for a living" of course.

    Our trader seek to make a decent income. Some put up $20K, and may use $500k or so of our money, again as a tool. They are seeking to make a decent 6 figure income, many do, many don't (but at least have a chance to do so)...

    Just my feelings on the subject....

    #10     Oct 13, 2011