Andover Trading

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Jackal, Dec 14, 2001.

  1. Jackal


    Has Andover undergone changes? I heard the proprietary program has been suspended and they are moving to only charge retail now?

    No one there would answer my questions.
  2. In New York Andover has proprietary trading. Do not know about any changes.
  3. dstod


    I currently trade in Andover's NYC office for a subsidiary of their's- Horizon Capital. Don't know if Andover itself is hiring, but do know that Horizon is. Email me if you're interested in more info.
  4. Speculator1929

    Speculator1929 Guest

    I heard that Andover itself (not the franchised offices) stopped taking proprietary risk. They have a customer deal where you put up money, get 10 to 1 leverage, 97% payout and 0.007 per share. You are registered, but you get all your profits and losses, so really is a way around the day trading rules. Similiar to Bright. Customer in disguise. If the firm is not taking risk on your trading, only making on commission, no matter what they call it, I think you are a "customer" The only difference is your money is not SIPC and you have risk of being in an LLC.
  5. I have to take exception to the above. We have spent years working with regulators to insure that we were not circumventing any rules as they relate to "customers"... Since we have been exchange members for decades, we have always done our best to stay in complete "compliance." We actually helped in the making of the rules regarding licensing and registration of traders so that we could keep our exchange access. I personally have paid SIPC dues for years (even though we had no rights under SIPC), when on the trading floor. This is a Profession, and should be regarded that way.

    If we wanted to simply open a retail arm (which we explored) we would have (1 or two others did). We prefer to use the licensing procedure as a screening mechanism of sorts.

    You are right about the risk involved in an LLC, and every trader should review the balance sheets of their trading firm (and understand them) prior to joining. The LLC formation was done (in our case) at the request of the regulators.

    Just trying to clarify for the benefit of other readers.
  6. Speculator1929

    How can they have such a low commision rate ?

    if i am paying .01 a share now at a differnet firm now, does that mean that i am over charged ?

  7. Are your passthroughs (ecns, sec,soes,etc) included in your .01? If they are, then you have a pretty good deal if you do light volume(under 200,000 shares or so) If .01 is commision only and passthroughs are on top of that, then you are getting raped. And if that is your total cost but you do volume of say anywhere over a couple hundred thousand shares/day, then it isn't to good.
    I am with Andover also on the better coast, SoCal, and with volume you can get a better rate than what was posted above. If your commision only is around 10/thousand, you are getting screwed.
  8. Speculator1929

    Speculator1929 Guest

    I am confused. Regardless of the form you are registered as such as with the phlx who has the loosest requirements for licensing, if a trader gets 100% of his profits and losses how is she any different from a customer. She passed a series 7? So what. Look at all the stockbrokers who passed that. A proprietary firm should take proprietary risk. Otherwise its traders are customers in another form.

    For the gentleman that asked about the rates, I do not know the details of whether or not it includes passthrus. Any rate you get must be looked at in the context of the entire deal you have with your firm. Are they taking risk? Are they providing any services? Are they charging you for other things -- machines, training, excessive borrowing costs, are they passing thru the short stock rebate? You need to look at any deal you have as a package including do you like the people you are associated with. Being associated with nice people (Gene W., Bright Bros, Echo etc) makes a big difference IMHO.
  9. Proprietary risk is there, but you need to be sure that the Firm's "owners" have $millions of their own money involved, otherwise the traders are just "backing" each is the case in many (too many) firms.

    ECN fees and other pass throughs are just ways of "spinning" higher fees.

    And thanks for the kind words!!!
  10. Speculator1929

    Speculator1929 Guest

    You are welcome for the kind words. You said "proprietary risk is there" -- where?

    You make a good point about the owner's money being up. But if the trader gets 100% of profits and losses, isn't the owner using his money just to "lend" money to the other members. (and to protect against a catastrophe)
    #10     Jan 2, 2002