An Overview of Bitcoin

Discussion in 'Cryptocurrencies' started by Baron, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. johnarb

    johnarb

    What's with all the hate, bro? If you're an investor and don't like the fundamentals, don't buy cryptos. If you are a trader, go short CME bitcoin futures and go big size. Good luck.
     
    #81     Jan 29, 2018
  2. traderjo

    traderjo

    no hate bro just trying to do due diligence on the claim that it is a "good thing for storage of wealth" as per people like you
    How on earth anybody can say that when the volatility is so bad and not to mention other factors, again I am not scrutinizing it as a trader but as a investor, get that, as a trader my questions would be different they would be
    - Exchange trad ability
    - Volume
    - Ability to hedge with options
    - Ability to trade as a spread
    - Margin ratio etc
     
    #82     Jan 29, 2018
  3. johnarb

    johnarb

    It's all about perspectives. When I invested in bitcoin in 2013, I experienced the volatility that did not work in my favor as it shot up to all time high (over $1,200 per bitcoin) only to go through a 2 year bear cycle that bottomed at a price of less than $200 per bitcoin. I did not sell and even bought some through the ups and downs with last purchase price of a little over $1000 per coin.

    Blind follower I am not. I studied the technical intricacies of the bitcoin (cryptos) architecture and was a miner of bitcoin as well as other crypto currencies from time to time. A couple of weeks ago, I setup 10 Amazon AWS linux servers ranging from 16-core CPU servers all the way to 64-core CPU servers, in order to solo-mine hundreds of thousands of Raven coins, a new open-source crypto currency that does not have any value, but who knows when it hits the exchanges, maybe I can exchange for bitcoins or fractions of bitcoin. I compiled the linux qt wallet from github as there was no pre-compiled linux wallet binary.

    If you are a long term (over a year) bitcoin investor, your returns are over 1000%. If you invested in bitcoin longer than 2 months, your returns would be over 100%. Bitcoin as an investment asset is very volatile and it's not for risk-averse investors.

    What do you consider is a good store of value instrument? Let's compare bitcoin to gold, real-estate, or valuable artwork. Can you transfer any of the stored value in the said instruments in whole or in part to anywhere in the world in a matter of minutes? You can with bitcoin. Can you cross any nation's border with a stored value of over $100,000 in any of the mentioned assets without getting confiscated (real-estate doesn't even count as you cannot it carry with you)? You can with bitcoin as the coins are on the blockchain. What is the liquidity like on any of the assets mentioned? Gold is the most liquid of them and bitcoin still beats it and funny enough, you can purchase gold using bitcoin from Apmex but you cannot purchase bitcoin with gold as CoinBase or any of the cryptos exchanges do not accept gold. There is a peer to peer market I believe where you can sell gold for bitcoin but it's not "official"...

    Update: Ledgerx offers bitcoin options and I believe CBOE will offer bitcoin options in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    #83     Jan 29, 2018
  4. traderjo

    traderjo

    "Can you transfer any of the stored value in the said instruments in whole or in part to anywhere in the world in a matter of minutes? Again you are talking about Technology under bitcoin which no body is doubting, I am talking about value in it? and as you say it is perceived
    "If you are a long term (over a year) bitcoin investor, your returns are over 1000%"
    What you are describing is Growth ( perceived)
    With real estate or good stock there could be yield + Growth,
    With Bit coin there is no yield you can only hope for growth.
    So storage of wealth requires both not just one
    SO my friend if you are making money by using technology know how you have, good for you, or if you are one of the participants of a bull run good for you too.. start claiming storage of value over traditional currency many would have issues with that
    ...I wonder would you still praise this product to a person who went long at $20000 on CBOE and then saw it plummet ,
    Option on CBOE: that hedges underlying futures contract not the actual bit coin holdings and again that is not there yet
     
    #84     Jan 29, 2018
  5. traderjo

    traderjo

    "Can you cross any nation's border with a stored value of over $100,000 in any of the mentioned assets without getting confiscated" LOL if that is a good reason to carry crypto then I wonder what "business" that person is in?
    sure in that situation it IS a good method to STORE wealth :p
    If your money is legit then you can access that around the world by digital banking , you dont have to cross boarder with $100,000 in hard cash..
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    #85     Jan 29, 2018
  6. johnarb

    johnarb

    Bitcoin is not a company. Gold is not a company either. Are you saying gold is not a storage of wealth? Any investor who takes risks does so on his/her own choice and must live with the results, good or bad. You seem to be claiming that bitcoin will never go back above $20,000 and you may be proven right, but you may also be proven wrong. We'll have to wait and see by end of the year which is when the performance of an investement should be determined.
     
    #86     Jan 29, 2018
  7. johnarb

    johnarb

    My friend, let's nail down the discussion and not move around. Store of value is what we were discussing and you're switching to the currency functionality. I was listing advantages of bitcoin as a store of value and if you do not wish to cross borders with your stored wealth, you do not have to take advantage of this feature.

    However, if you find yourself in a situation where your government has been toppled and you needed to flee with just the clothes on your back, don't you think it would be nice that you have stored wealth on the blockchain?

    Ok, I believe I have spent much time with our discussions and so have you, so you can have the last word if you wish, and I wish you luck if you decide to trade bitcoin futures or options, whether long or short.
     
    #87     Jan 29, 2018
  8. traderjo

    traderjo

    A Gain I am not talking about trading bitcoin futures or options we were discussing has it got any value as a "Investment" and you telling about portability
    ignoring the Yield / growth issues

    If my govt is toppled most probably I already have my wealth stored in either real estate around the globe, or cash in major banks etc any way .. good bye
     
    #88     Jan 29, 2018
  9. traderjo

    traderjo

    disadvantages of bitcoin/ crypto as an investment
    - No real backing
    - Your choice of coin may become less popular
    - Chances of the so called exchange going down overnight as compared to a major country currency going down overnight to pittance
    - NO yield
    - NO FDIC or similar assurance
    - Very volatile
    - poor acceptance around small places ( everybody recognizes $ from Timbktu to Thursday Islands)

    Advantages:
    - portability
    - Good for trading volatile
     
    #89     Jan 29, 2018
  10. johnarb

    johnarb

    Apologies, I was going to edit my post but I was too late as you have replied already. The government doesn't have to be toppled, as what happened in Cyprus or Greece and it may catch the locals by surprise. Sometimes, the local governments may impose restrictions overnight as what happened in India https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/15/india-rupee-restriction-boost-bitcoin-digital-currency.html

    Read about this a while ago, but I'm not a UK resident... https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/sep/12/big-cash-withdrawals-bank-barclays-denied-access

    I think it's important to mention that the most extreme situation doesn't have to take place....
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    #90     Jan 29, 2018
    itspossible likes this.