Just a catchy title. My question is: who's making all the money ? The background is this. Most people who try to trade fulltime lose money. The question is then who is making all the money$ ? Let me break it down quantitatively. 1. Stocks someone sells you a stock for a price, but it lose value, you then sold it. The seller made$, you lose. If you sold it for more than it's worth, both you and the original seller made$, and the guy who bought from you sold it for less then he lose, or he may chose to hang on to it for comeback. No loss is booked. Then there isn't a loser. 2. Stocks Short. You sold short a stock, it went lower and you covered with profit, you made $. The stock is put back into lender inventory. You win. If you have to cover at higher cost, you lose$, the lending broker puts it back into inventory, whether you made or lose$. 3. Options. Someone wrote a call either covered or naked. They sold it to you and you sold it to someone else for profit, you win, the call writer wins because he collected the premium. Now that someone else couldn't turn a profit because of expiration or stock loses value. It expired worthless. You and the original call writer won. The guy loses. Let say the guy sold it at a lose before expiration to someone else. And stock made come back and closed in the money. The last guy who held it wins if the call got in-the-money greater than the premium he paid for it. He held it and the stock were assigned to him. Under this scenario, everyone but one loses - the one who sold it for less. But it is also possible everyone wins, suppose there is no middle guy who bought from you and took a lose. Suppose he was the last guy and hung on to the call and stock made comeback and he exercised the option. Then everyone wins in this chain. ( I made it simple that the original stock owner wrote the covered call for greater strike than the price$ he paid for the stock). PUT Options. Same thing, I am sure you can construct the logics. 4. Futures. I am out-of-my-league here since I only trade stocks and opts. But my understanding futures you have long and short side so for every transaction there is a winner and a loser. Or perhaps drawn even if customer close EOD at same price. You see, there are winners in this game or am I deluding myself ? So before newbies are turned away, please answer the question I posted. Your input and discussion is most welcome.