Am I asking for too much?

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Propeller Head, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. I'm an inexperienced newbie interested in starting a career as a professional trader in the New York/New Jersey area. The thing is, I don't want to put up a capital contribution, or pay commissions, desk fees, or software fees. I'd be happy to give most of my eventual profits to the firm, but I don't want to pay for my losses. More importantly, I need an effective training program. I've read some comments from guys on this board looking for prop firms that offer a salary, which sounds spoiled and naive to me. I'm NOT looking for a draw or a salaried position, but at the same time, I don't want to pay money out of my own pocket to learn how to trade. As it is, it will cost me almost $400/month to commute from the suburbs to NYC, plus another $300-400/month for health insurance, etc. I can't afford to pay commissions and desk fees on top of that.

    I'm a college graduate (average mediocre public college, but good grades). I also have an unexpired Series 7 from my days working as a stockbroker. I'm willing to trade anything (stocks, options, futures, forex, etc.), but I need some training or mentoring. I do not need or expect a salary or a draw. So does anyone have any suggestions? Does anyone know of any firms in the New York/New Jersey area that fit my specifications? The only one that I know of is First New York Securities, and they even offer a salary, but they never called me back after I submitted a resume. From what I understand, they only hire newbies from Ivy League or semi-Ivy League backgrounds anyway. Where does this leave me? Am I seriously asking for too much here? Thanks.
  2. go to canada
  3. It seems like you really gave that response some thought. I guess Canada is the fourth state in the Tri-State Area, huh? Alright, I'll bite: why should I go to Canada?

    Does anyone else have any ideas? Does anyone know of any firms like this in AMERICA? Thanks.
  4. As a newbie, do you have profits to give?

    All risk and no reward.

  5. You don't want to put up money, you don't want to be responsible for your losses, you don't want to pay for you software, you don't want to pay commissions, but you want them to take on the burden and expense of training you. I would say you are asking for just a bit more than firms are willing to give, but only a bit more.

    I second what Limithrough said, move to Canada. In Canada is Swifttrade and Title Trade. You won't have to put up money but you will have to pay commission and you will have to pay for software and quote fees.

    Giving what you want, how and why do you expect the firm to pay for office rent, computers, software, trading costs and employees? Especially considering the firm isn't making any money. That sounds like a horrible business plan. Unless the government gives wall street firms federal funding to train traders to help offset the large loss of jobs on wall street for the past two years. Write to you congressman and senators to get them to earmark some money for this.
  6. i had this response entered but my connection dropped so I got lazy.

    Are your requests unreasonable? depends. someone will come on here and give you some bs about a job at goldman or a highly touted prop firm in equities. So, when you ask about prop, i'm assuming just that, not some fund trader.

    nobody does anything unless they can make money
    how much you make depends on your costs, among other things
    the costs (for this example, the cost of clearing) is lower in canada for equities.

    Its a priority as a grinder/scalper, if not the only one. In the states, will your receive all that you asked for? I'll tell you might think you're getting better. you might get a draw, with a high split, god knows i did.

    But one of your criteria will not be met; the commish.

    realize that this message board exists for sponsors. realize that everybody, backers or retail, wants your money, and they want it NOW. whether you get paid a draw, salary, high split, low split, high rate, low rate, whatever, the sooner you realize that everyone in this industry wants your money and they want it NOW, the better off you'll be in deciding who you want to give that money to. Nothing is a scam; it all depends on what you are comfortable with. In my case, I am not comfortable sacrificing my natural inclination to trade the shortest time frame in exchange for a draw and being able to swing crazy pnl with a high rate and good split. i'd rather just grind the crap out of something on a different, and at first glance, less desirable model (god knows when i first started i was so naive I can never imagine having taken the route I'm currently pursuing)

    I'm not going to piss everyone and their mother off by shitting on the business side of this industry; i think i've said enough.

    Btu just ask yourself, how do they make money.

    You'll arrive at a few answers. pick the one that you are most comfortable with; its that simple.


    Ask yourself honestly why anyone would be willing to offer an inexperienced trader access to trading capital, no commissions, no desk fees, no software fees. Although you say you'd be happy to give them most of your profits. But ... what if there are no profits? What if you lose substantial money? Your commuting and health insurance costs are irrelevant to a firm. The risk-reward is slanted entirely to you.

    Think of another analogy. Let's say I want to open a restaurant. I have no experience running one. But I want someone to get me set up, take all the financial risk and "hope" to recover their investment. Chances of that happening are slim and none. Just as 90 - 95% of new ventures fail in the first year or two traders also have a high washout rate.

    I'd say save up some money and start trading small. Anyone who doesn't have capital to fund an account probably shouldn't be trading IMO.

  8. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, moving to Canada isn't realistic for me at the moment. Anyway, I guess I can understand paying a desk fee and a software fee, as this covers the firm's expenses from just having me in the office. But as far as paying a capital contribution, or reimbursing them for losses, or paying commissions... I'd be broke in a matter of months. At 0.007, someone trading thousand-share lots would have to pay over a thousand dollars a month in commissions, even if you only placed ten trades per day. This sounds unsustainable. If that's the only way into this business, I think I'm finished before I even begin.
  9. I showed the first post to some of the guys who trade at our bank that i do research for. got quite a laugh.

    anyone who has any money to risk would not and could not be dumb enough to do anything but laugh.


  10. Fair enough. In that case, if I absolutely have to pay commissions, then I guess I actually do want a draw or a salary to offset my commission costs. But I still don't want to make a capital contribution or reimburse anyone for their losses. Those last two points are non-negotiable for me. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    To your earlier point, about getting a job at Goldman or trading for a fund, I am surprised that no one has suggested going this route yet. Believe me, if I could learn to trade by working for GoldmanSachs, I would. But I can't, so I won't. They only take people with the best pedigrees... or at least the best degrees. I have neither.
    #10     Apr 4, 2008