alternate investing ~ trading - Start Young

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Wallace, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. 'Start Young' collecting antiques, art, collectibles etc and occasionally trading or
    selling them, but the main idea is to build a 'collection' that may include 'everything'
    that in 20, 30, 50 years time will have accumulated a several hundreds percent
    increase in value

    while many people collect/trade as a business and income generator, the idea here
    is that collecting is a hobby or passtime whose offshoot may be profitable, that the
    collecting and owning is done for the pure pleasure of what's being collected — not
    for pure monetary value the piece has and may have in the future

    the following is based on watching many episodes of the BBC 'Antiques Roadshow'
    PBS 'Antiques Roadshow' and some 'Pawn Star' episodes

    what's apparent in the Antique Roadshows is that only a few of the guests can be
    described as 'collectors', most often the objects guests bring to the show have been
    passed to them from a family member
    lucky finds from car-boot/yard sales, 'charity' or other shops, auctions, antique fairs
    fleamarkets are common, where something purchased at a low cost is later found to
    be worth a lot more than the purchase price, sometimes considerably more, and
    that the owner had no idea of the true value of what they'd bought - tho some do

    - who knew that 'baseball cards' would one day be worth thousands of dollars tho
    few other sport or other such cards generate anywhere near those values
    - the famed US Keno brothers started in the business as children and one of their
    highest appraisals for a US side table ? was in the $200K - that sold at auction for
    - then there was the 'national treasure, yes sir a national treasure' Mid-19th Century
    Navajo Ute First Phase Blanket appraised by Donald Ellis at $500K —
    owner: "I had no idea. (voice breaking) It was laying on the back of a chair."
    - and the man who worked for the 'card' company and liasoned with Charles Shultz
    who gave him some originals of his work - now worth $250K - multi hour education source

    the BBC Antiques Roadshow began in 1979 and you 'can't' watch 4 years of their
    shows here:
    unfortunately i've discovered those older episodes can't be seen, the BBC only
    makes shows available for a very limited period -
    also google: 'bbc antiques roadshow' 'youtube bbc antiques roadshow' etc
    multi-hour education source

    Get Educated - watching the BBC and PBS videos/site will provide a lot of that
    while one doesn't need to become an 'expert' one does need to know that a Replica
    may have been inadvertently and unintentionally classified as Original by the seller
    whether the seller a private individual, at a yard sale, auction, 'antique' dealer or an
    online/Ebay seller, and that Replicas of guns, coins, watches, ceramics, sculpture
    antiques, antiquities, etc etc exist, legitimately, but, Copies are fraud; to beware of
    Fakes and Counterfeit objects, that Watercolors in particular can be reproduced and
    will appear to be Original rather than the difficult to distinguish Print, all of which of
    course have a much, much lower value than an Original; that antiquities often have
    a lower than expected value - too old and are often reproduced, copied, faked, but -
    that the price paid may be 'full retail' even over-paid amount with little likelyhood of
    an increase in value

    that the Box or Packaging the toy came in can double or more the value of the toy
    that chips and cracks on China/Ornaments etc sometimes don't lower the value too
    much and may still be worth collecting

    * to Never, Never, Never refinish an antique *
    say a brass lamp polished-up will half it's value, as would the refinishing of an 18thC
    table or other furniture, but - ask the expert first -
    Professional Restoration can and does increase the value of the object , sometimes

    Folk/Naive art/Crafts can also command high value, who'd have thought a handmade
    weather vane sitting for years on top of an old barn would be worth thousands or the
    'crappy' paintings done by an old woman are being collected by 'connoisseurs'
    'antique' does not necessarily mean '100 years old', 'modern' objects are collected
    and do see an increase in value, eg rock posters, celebrity siganture/letters, photos
    art in general

    since beauty is in the eye of the beholder the maxim is to collect what you like
    virtually everthing is collectable, google 'what to collect' for guidlines
    while some objects/groups have a high starting value others are very affordable

    like stocks the value of a group of say Victorian furniture or Majolica ceramics may
    rise and fall periodically reaching a high or being in a depressed market, one's buys
    are for the long term buy-and-hold, tho one may cast an eye to a particular market
    say Russian objects since Russians are all now rich, or a few years ago the Irish
    market and sell into that rising market

    the term 'collection' also applies to a group of objects: say a relative who was in the
    American Civil War, you have his uniform - coat, pants, hat, belt, plus a sword,
    maybe handgun, maybe long gun, maybe letters and/or diary from him, photograph,
    all could be sold individually but are usually worth more as a collection

    "A term that refers to an object's path through time, its "life experience" including
    who owned it, when, where and for how long-all of which, if known and verified,
    often adds significant value to an antique or collectible." part of the proof of being
    an original. watch out for who's the legal owner; an object might have been 'lost'
    from a museum, may have been looted during WWII, an unauthorized reproduction

    what's interesting and surprising about the Pawn Stars shows is the people pawning
    their object - usually a straight sell rather than trying to sell it privately especially via
    the internet where in theory they'd receive more money
    the Stars have bought cars, boat, plane, motor bikes, Coke machine, barber chair
    all of which they've had professionals restore to showroom finishes, and even after
    paying for that restoration the object still has profit potential - none were antiques
    in every show i've seen at least one expert is asked to come to the store to make
    an evaluation of the object's authenticity and value -
    if the Pawn Stars don't know they don't buy
    while pawn shops are a strictly retail business and not likely to yield low priced
    collectibles, Pawn Stars does offer some useful buying/selling and Real, Fake,
    Replica info:

    the most often heard response of guests on the Antiques Roadshow is "WOW"
    typical of guests who'd no idea of the value of their object/collection, even those who
    had previously asked an 'expert' - you have to ask the right one - or have the object
    insured for a given value. also typical are guests who own the object because they
    bought it for a practical reason and very much enjoy it, or who became a collector of
    lures because they enjoy fishing or started collecting decoys because they hunt

    how much should you invest ?
    if one looks at collecting from the pov of retirement income, tho with a difficult to
    assess annual roi, but a multi/several decade buyandhold strategy, one might base
    one's buying budget on the cost to buy one object one's collecting, once a week,
    month, quarter etc
    will every purchase result in an increase of value ?
    i'd say yes. judging by the Roadshows there's still objects today being sold at a
    price far below their appraised value, objects being disposed of into skips and
    dumpsters, estate/house sales, need-to-raise-cash sales, seller ignorance that
    results in very low buy investments -
    one wo/man's rubbish is another wo/man's treasure
    insurance and storage
    you may need to buy separate insurance each year since general household may
    not cover your particular object/s/collection/s. if you collect a lot and/or it's very
    valuable you may fill/over fill your home, and may need to rent a safety deposit box
    or larger storage that may also need additional insurance
    that the pursuit of collecting may become a passion since there's much to collect,
    buy/sell/trade along the way, and virtually thousands of places where one can visit
    to acquire objects, so just as in stock etc trading one has to disciplined when it
    comes to the amount of capital one takes on a collection hunt
    most peoples' busy lifestyle have them investing in mutual funds, retirement plans
    401s etc because it's easier for someone else to do it for them, so it's more than
    likely particularly if one has a family the collecting time has to have a schedule, but
    can be part of a family outing, if only once a month - with the occasional stop-off at
    a garage sale or etc one happens upon or walks/drives past, then there's the weekly
    auction, or two . . . . .
  2. Anybody want to buy my Jesse Jackson for president button. lol:)
  3. thanks wallace. lol
  4. adding another source, 'American Pickers' a new series on the History channel
    while these guys are professionals in that 'picking' and reselling is their business
    and income source, it's a bit more specialized than just looking around a stall or
    shop. there's a series called 'Hoarders', individuals or families that hoard stuff, bit
    depressing i find that people get into that situation however there seems to be the
    same sort of thing going on throughout the countryside where people have a farm or
    property and outbuildings that may be FILLED with stuff
    the buying process judging by the episodes i watched last night is quite different
    since some of the property owners do not want to sell Any of the stuff they've
    collected over the years, they're hoarders i think rather than collectors but hoarders
    with the buildings/space to store everything
    over the years some of the hoarding sites have become known and judging by the
    show's content some are 'family outing' destinations and owners are used to having
    people come by for a look-around and possible purchase of a found object/s as well
    as specific object/s being sought:

    believe Sotheby and maybe Christie's send out reps evey now and again at least
    in the UK to go door-to-door asking if anyone has something to sell. believe they
    usually announce this via an ad in the local paper and the rep would have some
    employee ID. not sure if they're looking for auction items or if they and/or make
    straight purchases. another education source:
  5. I have a lot of valuable stuff that I would like to sell but I know that I can't get a fair price so why would I go out and buy more.
  6. pspr


    You're right. I would only buy your Jesse Jackson button if you shipped it free and included a $20 bill.
  7. nLepwa


    Problem: Art has negative cash flow.

    You have to be able to sit on the investment for decades.

    Beside you need to consider the opportunity cost. Other negative cash flow instruments might be a better investment. Land in particular.

  8. You're right. I would only buy your Jesse Jackson button if you shipped it free and included a $20 bill.

    I'll think about it. lmao:D
  9. Ninna, as stated, " . . . the main idea [of this thread] is to build a 'collection' that
    may include 'everything' that in 20, 30, 50 years time will have accumulated a
    several hundreds percent increase in value." and that " . . . collecting is a hobby or
    passtime whose offshoot may be profitable, that the collecting and owning is done
    for the pure pleasure of what's being collected — not for pure monetary value the
    piece has and may have in the future."

    capital A Art is related to 'names' and galleries and generally high initial investment
    and the purchase of new artists' work from the pov of 'investment' is speculative at
    time and again people find art objects - paintings, sculpture, prints, embroidery,
    photographs, etc, etc that they purchase often for small sums that are immediately
    worth more than the purchase price
    while it's not common - not every time they go looking they'll find a 'superbuy', one
    can expect very good finds just because one is looking

    yes land is a 'good' investment since there's a finite amount of it but it also has to
    do with how much it costs and how one pays for it - cash or multi year mortgage.
    often Roadshow purchases were made with a very small amount of capital, seldom
    reaching $100 and that's key to what i've written about, tho the Pawn Stars having
    a large capital source and the Pickers make a 'turnaround' profit on purchases, the
    average person isn't doing that, as said, collecting as a hobby, passtime of objects
    that are liked - pleasure purchases rather than business purchases
    #10     Sep 9, 2010