You know I love all you crazy religious dudes though I realize you ain’t particularly religiclous like Illini Trader and Student mickey , but why mickey, just why! Why do you step to the Dark Side that way….? Why isn’t mind boggling fantastic enough.? Why arbitrarily bolt onto, “mind boggling fantastic” , an imaginary creator for no good reason and especially when one isn’t even required in the first place? Return to the Light you must !
Stu, Take it easy on the evilmouse! He gives you 99% and you complain about the 1% he gives us. BTW you have dark and light reversed.
Well, we can stop right there. Neither an engineer, nor anyone else, expects to create anything specific in an "unguided" process. If life arose spontaneously on Earth over 9 billion years it would not have been by an unguided process. The process would of course be constrained, i.e.,guided, by the natural laws so only certain outcomes are possible. Thus for example the formation of the chemical elements in the solar plasma is "guided" by the natural laws, only certain combinations are allowed by these laws, otherwise there could arise an infinite number of different elements. We know by observation this is not the case. Absolutely no "creator" is required for the elements to form spontaneously in cooling solar plasma. And we find exactly the same elements wherever we look in our universe!. An unguided process would naturally produce different elements everywhere. We can do this experiment or ourselves. We only find elements from the periodic table when we cool a plasma; none others. Why? Because the formation of these elements is guided by the natural laws. You are seeing something because you already believe it. This is profoundly unscientific! You'll do better if you wait until you see something to believe it.
Well I suppose because of my engineering background I see in living creatures pumps, valves, levers, materials, structures, housings, computers, chemistry, antibiotics, relationships, self repair, etc. For my way of thinking, it is extremely difficult to comprehend this was put together by chance, randomness, accident, time. Life is life, it breathes, even dormant atoms in a rock have life. And life to me means a being. The universe is a being. Humans for all our brilliance have yet to be able to create life, yet daily, life is created, not by us, but by life, eg, in a lab we can't create life, but via sex we can. So, due to this earth teeming with life, I'm assuming there possibly, highly likely is some creator. Not a biblical creature creator, with legs etc, but something else too enormous for us to imagine. Because the universe is enormous, that means all creation/creator is enormous. Right and wrong are universal laws, if we do right the majority of the time, then right wins, if we do wrong majority of time then disaster wins. Because nature is so fantastic, that means right/goodness is winning, that's the side I want to be on and hopefully everyone else.
The reason I believe christianity is dumb and stupid, because its infantile, pathetic and very limited. Beginning of sarcasm: Life started via a couple of people in a garden, the bible exclusive origination from Jewish nation, Messiah one person who had a small clan of exclusive followers. If you are poor, weak, then God looks favourably on you. If you are rich, famous, then you are despised by God and most likely wont make it into heaven. What a load of garbage!!!
When I say this is hell, I mean to include all galaxies and all stars. It also includes parallel universi with their own galaxies. By parallel I mean universi containing additional expressions of each personality, representing each significant decision that each personality makes. One universe per significant decision. If you had 100 universi per personality, that's kazillions of total universi in hell. That's why I say this is just one zip code in hell, and depending on the string of choices each personality makes, the situation could get better, or much worse. Hell is a closed system, meaning there is nothing new under the sun, meaning all decisions have already been made and time has ended the same way it began. At best, time lasted a split second, or a single moment, and was subsumed by the original condition of eternity. It's a closed system, like a holograph or a movie that's already in the can, so to speak. Your current experience is more like a review, which seems to reanimate a particular moment in time. Time is actually static, and only seems to move as the worm, your observational platform, moves through the apple, which is a static hologram. This is only experiential with the aid of bigotry. Technically, all demons are bigots and visa versa. A bigot would not know that time is already finished. All hellish scenarios have already been acted out, according to the choices and decisions that were proposed. Arguably you are not even really acting as a free agent, but rather reenacting a set of silly choices that sprang forth from the original silly choice. At this point in your journey through hell, indeed through any point, you really only have one choice that is genuinely of free agency. In all other choices you are slave to s.i.n. so to speak. You only have the choice to stay, or leave, which is why righteousness is defined as leaving.
For fucks sake dude, will you please stick with your own dogma! In the Gospel of Luke, the parable is as follows: He told them this parable. "Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn't leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? When he has found it, he carries it on his shoulders, rejoicing. When he comes home, he calls together his friends, his family and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' I tell you that even so there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous people who need no repentance." — Luke 15:3–7 Jesus christ, I mean, no offense but at least understand your own bullshit!
I very much appreciate your sentiments mickey. I just don't see why a random, spontaneous or accidental event isn't more beautiful and wondrous than one which can only be imagined to be one guided by yet another agency, which bears none of those hallmarks .
I don't really understand what you mean, I'm lost here.... Any random, spontaneous or accidental event will be one off, eg a monkey may create by accident a hammer, but monkey can't build a motorcar complete with service garages, roads, fuel bowsers, motor mechanics, paint shop, window glaziers, and water for the radiator. A synonym for life. On earth we have the full kit and camboodle, unfortunately over the years lost to extinction many plants and animals, so what we see now is only a fraction of what once was. All I can assume, this was built by intelligence, not accident or random event.
As an addendum to my last post on the scope of hell, I might add the following: A bigot is initially a personality that emerges when Christ is ignored. In the gospel of John s.i.n. is defined as, "...because they did not believe in Me (Christ)". But before there was ever believing, or disbelieving, there was ignorance, which is accomplished through the dumbing down of a mind which initially knows all. Once that is dumbed down, then you have what's called faith, and the various concepts that faith wishes upon. Initially, faith is not used to wish upon Christ, but instead to wish against Christ. So this is what it means to disbelieve Christ, and it is a primordial state of mind which manifests all other bigots and bigotry. As I've said, the primordial bigot can be characterized as "the prodigal son", which wanders away from the original conditions through what amounts to bigotry first, and disbelief second. Ignorance is manufactured, not granted. Paved with good intentions (to seek for more) the prodigal son sets out on a road into the unknown... literally unknown. This is the domain of faith, and imagination. Faith then functions as a wish granting factory, basically making shit up as it goes along...as it goes further and further away from reality (Christ). Each manifestation of a wish poses a potential problem requiring a decision. Each decision within the faith factory manifests some new situation to deal with in an almost endless feedback loop. It takes a determined bigot to persist in trying to solve the problems that wishing manifests, with more wishing, more faith, and more manifestations. Mankind, as well every other intergalactic specie of sentient being is made manifest out of the initial ignorance...out of the initial unbelief in Christ. It is only natural then, or at least predictable, that we all maintain that same, primordial disbelief, or what I prefer to think of as feigned ignorance (of Christ). As such, we are natural enemies of Christ/Reality/Truth, along with all the other demons in hell. Xenophilia, as well xenophobia arise out of the pursuit and promulgation of special status. We love special status (xenophilia) and we hate it too (xenophobia). It's like a simultaneous blessing and curse. We can only experience special status within the domain of faith, in the land of feigned ignorance of Christ/Reality. Hell is the land of inequality, which goes hand in hand with inequity which is not far off from iniquity. Out of the inequities of special status arise all of our classic demons. In hell, situations arise that seem unfair, giving birth the the phenomenon of revenge. To contemplate revenge, you really have to narrow your mind down to a special kind of bigot. And this is where our classic demons are born. But we have all started out the same on the path of disbelief in Christ, which leads further out into the darkness of the faith factory.